# Explain to me by downsizing or outsourcing are immoral **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 12, 2004, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-to-me-by-downsizing-or-outsourcing-are-immoral/239556 "2004-04-12T03:21:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 2\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2004, 8:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-to-me-by-downsizing-or-outsourcing-are-immoral/239556/121 "2004-04-17T08:19:11Z")
I don’t have a problem with offshoring, really. I understand that businesses need to be competitive. But it does irk me when RIF’s result in bonuses for managers and not lowered prices to the consumers. And why do we not talk about about salary reduction for management or layoffs for executives or executives stepping down for the good of the company if the ‘morally’ right thing to do is to take care of the investors and be ‘lean and mean’? [sub]this actually happened at a company I worked for: the biggest client, Montgomery Wards, went bankrupt. instead of layoffs, management announced a company-wide 5% pay reduction. stock options were given in lieu of the pay, whch was restored to it’s previous level a year and a half later. the point being: the exec’s felt the pinch as well as the rank and file.[/sub] ---
**Author:** ![iamme99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/57b2e6/32.png) [@iamme99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamme99)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2004, 10:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-to-me-by-downsizing-or-outsourcing-are-immoral/239556/122 "2004-04-17T10:02:01Z")
More weirdness in the outsourcing industry now as big American companies start buying Indian outsourcing companies. Let me guess at the pitch now: “We’re not outsourcing expensive USA labor, we’re just transferring operations to another part of our own humongous company”. Or for other companies outsourcing their labor: “We’re not outsourcing to FOREIGN workers! No sir ree! Those overseas replacement workers are really employees of American companies”! So now, if the owning American company removes workers in the USA and transfers the work to say their Indian company or the contracting company employs through an American owned outsourcing company in India or somewhere else, then the people let go might not be considered to have been outsourced. Thus, the people here who lost their jobs to what used to be outsourcing would not be eligible for retraining under any white-collar proposed outsourcing law, the number of jobs “lost” to outsourcing goes down and therefore, the outsourcing problem disappears. Voilà! Isn’t big business fun? Damm, I should have been a lawyer! (pats self on back) 😃 I really think the government is going to have to look into taxing the income of companies foreign employees if this keeps up because their won’t be enough people with jobs in the USA to support the governments revenue needs. > [@](#): > > \*\*U.S. companies buying in to outsourcing industry > > U.S. companies acquiring Indian firms\*\* > > By Mike Tarsala, [CBS.MarketWatch.com](http://CBS.MarketWatch.com) > Last Update: 8:29 PM ET Apr 16, 2004 > > SAN FRANCISCO (CBS.MW) – The profit to be made and money to be saved in the outsourcing industry proved too tempting for IBM and Citigroup to ignore. > > The two U.S. corporate titans announced purchases in the past week of India-based outsourcing contractors in a bold advance into a controversial industry. While the world’s leading outsourcing firms remain foreign-owned, large American companies are eyeing mid- to small-sized contractors to get into the business, for their own needs and to cater to others, analysts say. > > “The big firms in the U.S. will start owning their service providers in India,” says Ravi Aron, a professor of operations and business management at the University of Pennsylvania’s Wharton School, who says several outsourcing firms are up for sale. > > Many U.S. companies, like IBM (IBM: news) and Citigroup (C: news), are so attracted to the low cost and quality of software development, customer relations and human-resources work done by India-based outsourcing firms, they want to make the companies part of their own operations > > And there seems to be growing pressure on Indian firms to sell, both to take advantage of high business valuations and because companies want a U.S. name on their marquee, says Nick Raich, director of research at Zacks Investment Research. Indian employees would rather work for a U.S. firm such as PriceWaterhouseCoopers than an Indian concern, even if the wages are exactly the same, he says. > > [U.S. companies buying in to outsourcing industry](http://custom.marketwatch.com/custom/myway-com/news-story.asp?guid=%7BBCE7F0B0-A1C3-4ABB-8252-755D64C740D0%7D) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-to-me-by-downsizing-or-outsourcing-are-immoral/239556.md?page=6)