# Explain to me the current Spider-man brouhaha **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 8, 2008, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-to-me-the-current-spider-man-brouhaha/432785 "2008-01-08T22:37:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![toadspittle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c0e974/32.png) [@toadspittle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/toadspittle)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2008, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-to-me-the-current-spider-man-brouhaha/432785/1 "2008-01-08T22:37:27Z")
Obviously, spoilers may be ahead for some folks. Anyway, I heard about the negative reactions re: the latest Spider-Man, in which Peter kisses a girl who isn’t MJ. I am relatively familiar with comic books and the general backstories, and I’ve kept loosely abreast of the unmasking of Spidey, the civil war nonsense, etc., but I haven’t read or followed any major comics for years, I must confess. So what’s going on that’s caused such an uproar? I gather that it involves not just this kiss, but also some sort of major retcon? ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Some\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ad7895/32.png) [@Just\_Some\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Some_Guy)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2008, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-to-me-the-current-spider-man-brouhaha/432785/2 "2008-01-09T00:18:46Z")
Let me see if I can do this simply enough. In short, after Peter Parker publicly unmasked himself he made himself and his family a target. Aunt May got shot by a would be assassin and is on death’s door (yet again). To give an 85 year old woman who has been hospitalized so often she has her own personalized bedpan a few more years of life he and MJ trade their marriage to Mephisto. Really. Spider-Man and his wife betray each other to the devil for the sake of a woman who has died at least four times already. So no one remembers the marriage, everything is set back to roughly 1973 in continuity including things that don’t make any sense for them to be set back to 1973 in continuity and no one is happy. It also doesn’t help that the credited writer on those issues essentially had the idea of resetting Spider-man forced on him by Marvel’s Editor-In-Chief, then had his still annoying but not absolutely crazy method for doing it rejected, and then is forced to shove in one of the worst ideas ever used in a comic book (a medium that included a super team that selected who would go on missions by seeing who got hit by planets flung off a spinning model of the solar system). So he’s not doing his best work on a terrible idea either. ---
**Author:** ![Push\_You\_Down](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/push_you_down/32/9095_2.png) [@Push\_You\_Down](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Push_You_Down)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2008, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-to-me-the-current-spider-man-brouhaha/432785/3 "2008-01-09T00:23:18Z")
Peter and Mary Jane make a literal deal with the devil in order to save Aun May’s life. Mephisto (citing something like the love between MJ and Peter is a unique ever lasting kind of love that it is dangerous to his evil ways) offers to undo all the damage (Aunt May’s injury, Peter’s persona being public knowledge) in exchage for the massive reality warp of Peter and Mary Jane’s marriage NEVER happening. That’s right. The marriage is completely removed from existence. Mephisto says that’s all that will have changed but as soon as Harry Osborne shows up alive and always has been alive… you know Mephisto lied. So the uproar is how this pisses all over continuity (if Peter and MJ weren’t married then X couldn’t have hapepned and if X didn’t hapepn than Y couldn’t have happened and if Y didn’t happen then that means W and X never could have happened either, etc etc) and ruins, because seemingly one guy at the company hated that Peter was married, one of the longest lasting marriages in Marvel history. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2008, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-to-me-the-current-spider-man-brouhaha/432785/4 "2008-01-09T00:31:03Z")
Writer J. Michael Straczynski account of his conversation with editor Joe Quesada: > [@](#): > > To explain, here’s the conversation I had with Marvel, in sum: > > \*“So what does Mephisto do?” I ask. > > “He makes everybody forget Peter’s Spider-Man.” > > “Uh, huh. So Aunt May’s still in the hospital --” > > “No, he saves Aunt May.” > > “But if all he does is save her life and make everybody forget he’s Spidey, she still has a scar on her midsection.” > > “No, he makes that go away too.” > > "Okay…: > > “Then he wakes up in her house.” > > “The house that was burned down?” > > “Right.” > > “But how --” > > “Mephisto undoes that as well.” > > “Okay. And the guys who shot at Peter and May and were killed, they’re alive too? Mephisto can bring guys back from the dead?” > > “It’s all part of the spell.” > > “And Doc Strange can’t tell?” > > “No,” > > “And the newspaper articles? News footage?” > > “Joe, it’s been forgotten.” > > “I’m just asking is that stuff there or not there?” > > “Not there. And Peter’s web shooters are back.” > > “Is this the same spell or a different spell?” > > “Same spell.” > > “How does making people forget he’s Spidey bring back his web shooters?” > > “It’s magic, okay?” > > “I see. And Harry’s back.” > > “Right.” > > “And Mephisto does this too.” > > “Yep.” > > “So is Harry back from the dead, or has he been alive? If they ask him, hey Harry, what did you do last summer, will he remember? And the year before? And the year before? If he says they all went on a picnic two years ago, will they remember it?” > > “It’s --” > > “Because if he now has a life he remembers, if he’s not back from the dead, then you’ve changed the continuity you said you didn’t want to change. Those are your only options: he was brought back from the dead, and there’s a grave, and people remember him dying --” > > “Mephisto changes THEIR memories too.” > > "-- or he’s effectively been alive as far as our characters know, so he’s been alive all along, so either way as far as our characters are concerned, continuity’s been violated going back to 1971. > > How do you explain that?" > > “It’s magic, we don’t have to explain it.”\* > > And that’s the part I had a real problem with, maybe the single biggest problem. There’s this notion that magic fixes everything. It doesn’t. “It’s magic, we don’t have to explain it.” Well, actually, yes, you do. Magic has to have rules. And this is clearly not just a case of one spell making everybody forget he’s Spidey…suddenly you’re bringing back the dead, undoing wounds, erasing records, reinstating web shooters, on and on and on. > > What I wanted to do was to make one small change to history, a tiny thing, whose ripples we could control to only touch what editorial wanted to touch, making changes we could explain logically. I worked for weeks to come up with a timeline that would leave every other bit of continuity in place. It was rigorous, and as logical as I could make it. In the end of OMD as published, Harry is alive and he’s always been alive as far as the characters know…so how is that different than he was alive the whole time? > > It made no sense to me. > > Still doesn’t. It’s sloppy. It violates every rule of writing fiction of the fantastic that I and every other SF/Fantasy writer knows you can’t violate. It’s fantasy 101. From [here](http://forum.newsarama.com/showthread.php?t=141756). ---
**Author:** ![toadspittle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c0e974/32.png) [@toadspittle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/toadspittle)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2008, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-to-me-the-current-spider-man-brouhaha/432785/5 "2008-01-09T00:41:52Z")
Thanks. I get a feed from newsarama, and this is what piqued my interest: [http://community.livejournal.com/scans\_daily/4749490.html](http://community.livejournal.com/scans_daily/4749490.html) ---
**Author:** ![toadspittle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c0e974/32.png) [@toadspittle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/toadspittle)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2008, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-to-me-the-current-spider-man-brouhaha/432785/6 "2008-01-09T01:07:27Z")
Ha! I’m listening to Joe Quesada explain things on the Howard Stern Show. Eh. He should have just killed Aunt May and MJ. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2008, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-to-me-the-current-spider-man-brouhaha/432785/7 "2008-01-09T02:17:59Z")
Also controversial are Quesada’s reasons for doing this; IIRC, he feels that the marriage ages Spidey, and makes him too much of a “winner.” Oh, and MJ remembers everything, I believe, so there’s always an “out” juuuuuust in case. ---
**Author:** ![DataZak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ea666f/32.png) [@DataZak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DataZak)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2008, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-to-me-the-current-spider-man-brouhaha/432785/8 "2008-01-09T02:21:29Z")
The comic fandom is up in arms over this. There are guys on YouTube wiping their asses with pages of _One More Day_ and burning _One More Day_ (probably an extra copy…no comic book fan would burn their only copy. It would break up their run). Like this would make Joe Quesada care. Seriously, guys…Marvel already has your money. They don’t care what you do with the books. Eh. All this would be retconned in about two years time. Or when Joe Quesada is replaced. Whichever comes first. ---
**Author:** ![robardin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/43a26b/32.png) [@robardin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robardin)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2008, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-to-me-the-current-spider-man-brouhaha/432785/9 "2008-01-09T02:56:26Z")
I love it! Legions of fans getting up in arms over a retcon that no doubt will itself be retconned in the not-too-distant-future. > [@](#): > > **Comic Book Guy** : Philip K Dick! It can’t be! It’s as if Superman moved to Gotham City! > **Martin** : Which he did, in World’s Finest Comics #94. _(Points to the comic.)_ See? > **Comic Book Guy** : That was an imaginary story, dreamt by Jimmy Olsen after he was kicked in the head by Supergirl’s horse, Comet. It never really happened. > **Bart** : _None_ of these things ever _really_ happened. > **Comic Book Guy** : Get out of my store. ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2008, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-to-me-the-current-spider-man-brouhaha/432785/10 "2008-01-09T03:07:00Z")
[QUOTE=DataZak] The comic fandom is up in arms over this. There are guys on YouTube wiping their asses with pages of _One More Day_ and burning _One More Day_ (probably an extra copy…no comic book fan would burn their only copy. It would break up their run). Like this would make Joe Quesada care. Seriously, guys…Marvel already has your money. They don’t care what you do with the books. [/QUOTE] Well, along with that, there’s a good few people who are saying they aren’t going to continue buying Spider-man comics. So that might possibly make a difference, depending on how many actually do. Either way though, you’re right. This is going to get retconned pretty soon. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2008, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-to-me-the-current-spider-man-brouhaha/432785/11 "2008-01-09T03:14:11Z")
[QUOTE=Leaper] …Oh, and MJ remembers everything, I believe, so there’s always an “out” juuuuuust in case. [/QUOTE] Thanks to _Dallas_, there’s ALWAYS an out for everyone in every situation in every serialized TV series, movie series or comic strip. It was all a dream. ---
**Author:** ![RikWriter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/49beb7/32.png) [@RikWriter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RikWriter)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2008, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-to-me-the-current-spider-man-brouhaha/432785/12 "2008-01-09T03:21:53Z")
[QUOTE=Revenant Threshold] Well, along with that, there’s a good few people who are saying they aren’t going to continue buying Spider-man comics. [/QUOTE] Me among them. I dumped Spider-Man at the beginning of the Clone Saga, and only started buying it again during the whole Civil War thing…and now, I will be dumping it again. I am not interested in Joe Quesada’s personal wank. ---
**Author:** ![Sockmunkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f17d59/32.png) [@Sockmunkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sockmunkey)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2008, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-to-me-the-current-spider-man-brouhaha/432785/13 "2008-01-09T03:52:30Z")
Jeez, if Quesada hated the marriage that much he could have just had MJ tell Mephisto to swap her life for May’s. Cheesy and cliche’ but workable. The only reason I can see to reset the universe is if he doesn’t feel like, or know how to, deal with the plotline of Spidey going public. Personally, I would rather they simply let May pass on. She’s had a long full life and should be allowed her eternal rest with Ben. This makes for a nice little angst-fest as Spider-Man is known to have. (about every other week but that’s quibbling) Anyhow, this would make it a lot easier for Petey & MJ to be on the run and stay mobile. Heck they could just flee the damn country, and that would be a pretty interesting storyline in itself. In any case, I agree with all the people who think this will get retconned. ---
**Author:** ![Harborwolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Harborwolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harborwolf)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2008, 12:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-to-me-the-current-spider-man-brouhaha/432785/14 "2008-01-09T12:21:19Z")
Hated the whole thing. The ending made absolutely zero sense. Parker has dealt with death before that he felt responsible for: Uncle Ben, Gwen Stacy, Osborne, Aunt May (once or twice), Mary Jane (though not really dead just kidnapped by someone who wanted his powers). Never freaked out and needed help from the mystical underworld before. Not to mention all of the various times he’s dealt with Mephisto before. I guess it never occured to him that maybe Mephisto isn’t the right person to deal with. The worst part? Completely unnecessary to bring in magic. You want to break up the marriage? Make them get a divorce. Peter and family have gone through quite a bit of stress recently. You have a few issues dealing with May’s death (the public loves those) and a few more issues dealing with the end of his marriage. Then you move on. No magic needed. Provides a nice chance for character growth, and you don’t need to “retcon” anything to bring them back together. As to whether or not they’ll retcon this back to status quo, no question they’ll do it. This is dumber than the clone saga by leaps and bounds. I won’t be around for it though. That was my last issue, and I’m showing my displeasure the only way I can. Maybe if enough people do it, Queseda will have to own up to this colossal cock-up. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Some\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ad7895/32.png) [@Just\_Some\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Some_Guy)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2008, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-to-me-the-current-spider-man-brouhaha/432785/15 "2008-01-09T12:54:39Z")
The thing that really bothers me about this is that it’s plainly just more of the continuity shuffle. About ten years ago someone who I don’t recall decided that what they really needed to do was make Spider-Man a swinging single again. So Mary Jane was killed off and they swore up and down that she was gone forever this time (since there had been times in the past post marriage when she was thought to be dead or they had a temporary separation). The fans all went, “Yeah, right. She’ll be back within three issues of getting a new writer.” And naturally the fans were right; the writer switched and things were back to the Mary Jane marriage status quo almost immediately. And that’s the real problem with a lot of these long running series. Hardly anyone wants to do anything really new with them and people just set the character to whatever their favorite period was. “I liked Spider-man better in 1975 so let’s change everything up so it’s 1975 again!” Then the next writer comes in and says “I liked Spider-Man in the late 80’s so I’m going to make things match that!” And then some lunatic comes in and says “I liked Spider-Man during the clone saga!” but that guy is tarred and feathered so he doesn’t get to reset anything. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2008, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-to-me-the-current-spider-man-brouhaha/432785/16 "2008-01-09T13:00:08Z")
What’s this about “bringing back webshooters?” I haven’t read a Spiderman comic in decades, but I thought the organic webshooters were part of the movie franchise…I remember fanboys screaming in outrage over them. ---
**Author:** ![Mollie\_Magill](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mollie_magill/32/20882_2.png) [@Mollie\_Magill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mollie_Magill)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2008, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-to-me-the-current-spider-man-brouhaha/432785/17 "2008-01-09T13:19:32Z")
[QUOTE=Just Some Guy] And then some lunatic comes in and says “I liked Spider-Man during the clone saga!” but that guy is tarred and feathered so he doesn’t get to reset anything. [/QUOTE] I have coffee on my keyboard. I dumped Spider-man during the clone crap. I picked it up again in 2001. It’s looking like it’s time to dump it again. I hate it when they make several hundred issues totally meaningless. ---
**Author:** ![Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tapioca_Dextrin)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2008, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-to-me-the-current-spider-man-brouhaha/432785/18 "2008-01-09T13:21:16Z")
There’s only one organization powerful enough to help Spidey in his hour of greatest need The [United Nations](http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22408081/)!!! 😕 :dubious: :smack: :eek: ---
**Author:** ![robardin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/43a26b/32.png) [@robardin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robardin)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2008, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-to-me-the-current-spider-man-brouhaha/432785/19 "2008-01-09T13:24:27Z")
[QUOTE=Tapioca Dextrin] There’s only one organization powerful enough to help Spidey in his hour of greatest need The [United Nations](http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22408081/)!!! 😕 :dubious: :smack: :eek: [/QUOTE] :dubious: :eek: indeed! Who’s next? The Shriners? M.A.D.D.? UNICEF? It starts to feel like I’m playing the old Steve Jackson game _Illuminati!_ “This turn, the Servants of Cthulhu’s first action is to make the Shriners, with 2 additional power from the aid of Orbital Mind Control Lasers, attack to destroy Spider Man.” ---
**Author:** ![Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tapioca_Dextrin)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2008, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-to-me-the-current-spider-man-brouhaha/432785/20 "2008-01-09T13:30:32Z")
[QUOTE=robardin] Who’s next? UNICEF? [/QUOTE] Why, [yes](http://www.un.org/News/briefings/docs/2002/db103002.doc.htm) > [@](#): > > Spiderman and UNICEF > > Okay, if you like Spiderman, get ready. Tomorrow, 31 October, there will be a Halloween party for children of United Nations delegates and staff starting at > > 5 p.m. on the Visitors’ Plaza to highlight the “Trick-or-Treat for UNICEF” fundraising campaign. There will be a special appearance by Spiderman -– and I don’t know if he’s going to climb the building, I think they were trying to get clearance from the security people for him to do that -– but anyway, he’ll be there, and he’ll present UNICEF with a donation, encouraging the attendees to “Be a Hero: Trick-or-Treat for UNICEF”. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-to-me-the-current-spider-man-brouhaha/432785.md?page=2)