# Explain to me why there is an "offsides" rule in hockey and soccer **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [August 14, 2009, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-to-me-why-there-is-an-offsides-rule-in-hockey-and-soccer/506460 "2009-08-14T22:27:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2009, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-to-me-why-there-is-an-offsides-rule-in-hockey-and-soccer/506460/21 "2009-08-18T01:08:50Z")
Soccer needs to do the same thing as hockey: make a line where there is no offside beyond that line. It’s totally dumb to call offside 3 feet in front of the goal. In hockey if you go beyond the blue line everything is OK except you need to say out of the small crease. Also for soccer - why on Earth can you not pass the ball ahead if you beat the entire defense? That rule is completely bizarre and has no point at all. If you are fast enough to beat the defense than anything should be OK ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2009, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-to-me-why-there-is-an-offsides-rule-in-hockey-and-soccer/506460/22 "2009-08-18T02:57:50Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > I realize that Soccer has a rich history and is pretty much the most popular sport in the world, but I do not understand the seeming backlash to making it a higher scoring affair. Speaking again from a basketball perspective, if you have a score of 1-0, then it seems like so much of the game is wasted. Momentum and cheering by the fans amount to basically nothing if it produces no score. In the NBA, when there are momentum shifts, teams can go on a 10, 15, or 20 point scoring binge and the other team can utterly be demoralized. I guess I just want to know why people have something against that. If you dont, sorry for the characterization It’s not something against it per se, but the best baseball games I have seen are low scoring pitchers duels. The bottom line is I don’t see a 1-0 game as “wasted” in any way. > [@YogSosoth](#): > > I think Soccer, Hockey, even Football and Baseball can do with more scoring. Theres no denying that the fans love to watch a home run or a touchdown, and I dont think it would destroy the game of Soccer to make rules that allow easier scoring. Whats wrong with that? Now Soccer’s so impossible to score on that a 2 point lead with a few minutes to go basically makes it a really really steep uphill climb for any team. In basketball, the last 2 minutes of a game are the most exciting. Why cant Soccer prosper with 10-9 scores? Upping the scoring for the sake of upping the scoring panders to low attention spans and the lowest common denominator. If a goal is easier, it is less exciting. Do you honestly not find defense interesting to watch? ---
**Author:** ![RaftPeople](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@RaftPeople](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RaftPeople)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2009, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-to-me-why-there-is-an-offsides-rule-in-hockey-and-soccer/506460/23 "2009-08-18T03:47:00Z")
> [@villa](#): > > Upping the scoring for the sake of upping the scoring panders to low attention spans and the lowest common denominator. Then a game in which you can’t score at all must pander to an even more exclusive club, right? Upping the scoring is an attempt to optimize the emotional appeal of the game for observers. There exists a sweet spot (IMO) in which scoring is not too easy and not too hard, that the observer is excited about the accomplishment but still uncertain of the outcome due to the other teams ability to score also. In my opinion, soccer has too little scoring and basketball has way too much. 4 to 7 scores per team per game (for many sports, not sure what to do with basketball) seems to me to be within the sweet spot. ---
**Author:** ![Piker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ba9def/32.png) [@Piker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Piker)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2009, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-to-me-why-there-is-an-offsides-rule-in-hockey-and-soccer/506460/24 "2009-08-18T04:26:49Z")
> [@](#): > > Absurdly, I haven’t yet got around to saying that football is a wonderful sport, but of course it is. **Goals have a rarity value that points and runs and sets do not, and so there will always be that thrill, the thrill of seeing someone do something that can only be done three or four times in a whole game if you are lucky, not at all if you are not.** And I love the pace of it, its lack of formula; and I love the way that small men can destroy big men in a way that they can’t in other contact sports, and the way that the best team does not necessarily win. And there’s the athleticism, and the way that strength and intelligence have to combine. It allows players to look beautiful and balletic in a way that some sports do not: a perfectly-timed diving header, or a perfectly-struck volley, allow the body to achieve a poise and grace that some sportsmen can never exhibit. Nick Hornby, **Fever Pitch** We like our game just fine, thanks. ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2009, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-to-me-why-there-is-an-offsides-rule-in-hockey-and-soccer/506460/25 "2009-08-18T04:36:04Z")
> [@RaftPeople](#): > > Then a game in which you can’t score at all must pander to an even more exclusive club, right? > > Upping the scoring is an attempt to optimize the emotional appeal of the game for observers. There exists a sweet spot (IMO) in which scoring is not too easy and not too hard, that the observer is excited about the accomplishment but still uncertain of the outcome due to the other teams ability to score also. In my opinion, soccer has too little scoring and basketball has way too much. 4 to 7 scores per team per game (for many sports, not sure what to do with basketball) seems to me to be within the sweet spot. That might be the case if I had set upping the score panders to the lowest common denominator. But I said upping the score for the sake of upping the score… Football fans aren’t sitting crying out for 5-4 games every week. It isn’t hockey where the fans were deserting the game. There simply isn’t a problem at the moment. The Premier League last year averaged 2.5 goals per game. Serie A was slightly higher at 2.6. Both leagues were, week in, week out, fantastically exciting and popular with the fans. You will never convince me seeing 4-3 or 3-2 every week is more exciting that 2-0 and 2-1. It just flies in the face of 40 years of football watching experience for me. A 6-4 game once in a season - wonderful. 6-4 every week and I would start to get bored. ---
**Author:** ![RaftPeople](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@RaftPeople](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RaftPeople)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2009, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-to-me-why-there-is-an-offsides-rule-in-hockey-and-soccer/506460/26 "2009-08-18T04:49:09Z")
> [@villa](#): > > Football fans aren’t sitting crying out for 5-4 games every week. It isn’t hockey where the fans were deserting the game. There simply isn’t a problem at the moment. I am sure you are correct that fans are not asking for more scoring, nor is there a problem for current fans. But I think this is probably due to familiarity with the game as it exists. As an outside observer (only really watch my kids soccer games, generally), and someone that analyzes this type of stuff with most sports, I think there is a sweet spot that would be considered more enjoyable by more fans than the current amount of scoring if the new way was setup from the beginning. In other words, if you take away the familiarity quotient and start from a clean slate world wide, I think a higher scoring game would be considered more enjoyable. But that’s just my opinion. ---
**Author:** ![FrWindyShephardHenderson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a9a28c/32.png) [@FrWindyShephardHenderson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FrWindyShephardHenderson)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2009, 9:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-to-me-why-there-is-an-offsides-rule-in-hockey-and-soccer/506460/27 "2009-08-18T09:09:58Z")
> [@Malacandra](#): > > As to the digs, I got the impression the game would be considered boring if there wasn’t the odd bit of niggle going on. 😃 > > In informal schoolboy football there’s usually no referee and hence no offside, but when I was a lad “goal-hanging” was deprecated socially if nothing more. Yeah but occasionally in Gaelic Football you do want a game to break out. Also yeah, in a pick up game of soccer with no offside, the tag of goal hanger was the greatest insult that could be bestowed upon someone. ---
**Author:** ![drillrod](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@drillrod](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drillrod)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2009, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-to-me-why-there-is-an-offsides-rule-in-hockey-and-soccer/506460/28 "2009-08-18T14:57:33Z")
Something I’ve always found interesting about American Football is that it’s considered a high-scoring game, relative to soccer, but that’s simply due to the scoring system. Few fans would be disappointed at a result of 14-7, which discounting nearly 100% automatic extra points, is really a 2-1 score. ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2009, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-to-me-why-there-is-an-offsides-rule-in-hockey-and-soccer/506460/29 "2009-08-18T14:59:01Z")
> [@RaftPeople](#): > > I am sure you are correct that fans are not asking for more scoring, nor is there a problem for current fans. But I think this is probably due to familiarity with the game as it exists. > > As an outside observer (only really watch my kids soccer games, generally), and someone that analyzes this type of stuff with most sports, I think there is a sweet spot that would be considered more enjoyable by more fans than the current amount of scoring if the new way was setup from the beginning. In other words, if you take away the familiarity quotient and start from a clean slate world wide, I think a higher scoring game would be considered more enjoyable. But that’s just my opinion. You are basing your opinion on what would make football a better game to watch based on kids’ games? How old are these kids? Because I probably wouldn’t make judgments on how baseball could be made a better spectator sport based on observation of Little League games. ---
**Author:** ![RaftPeople](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@RaftPeople](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RaftPeople)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2009, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-to-me-why-there-is-an-offsides-rule-in-hockey-and-soccer/506460/30 "2009-08-18T15:08:18Z")
> [@villa](#): > > You are basing your opinion on what would make football a better game to watch based on kids’ games? > > How old are these kids? Because I probably wouldn’t make judgments on how baseball could be made a better spectator sport based on observation of Little League games. No, mostly I was thinking of the pro games I’ve watched (been to one earlier this year). Kids are high teens and select, so it’s not really little league-ish, if that has influenced me. ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2009, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-to-me-why-there-is-an-offsides-rule-in-hockey-and-soccer/506460/31 "2009-08-18T15:37:50Z")
> [@RaftPeople](#): > > No, mostly I was thinking of the pro games I’ve watched (been to one earlier this year). Kids are high teens and select, so it’s not really little league-ish, if that has influenced me. Honestly, watch a full season of a good league (Premier League, Serie A or La Liga and tell me you think it would be better with close to double the number of goals. Just don’t focus on Chelsea games, otherwise you will get a false opinion… 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2009, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-to-me-why-there-is-an-offsides-rule-in-hockey-and-soccer/506460/32 "2009-08-18T15:38:48Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > I realize that Soccer has a rich history and is pretty much the most popular sport in the world, but I do not understand the seeming backlash to making it a higher scoring affair. Speaking again from a basketball perspective, if you have a score of 1-0, then it seems like so much of the game is wasted. Momentum and cheering by the fans amount to basically nothing if it produces no score. In the NBA, when there are momentum shifts, teams can go on a 10, 15, or 20 point scoring binge and the other team can utterly be demoralized. I guess I just want to know why people have something against that. It’s not “wasted”. The fact that nobody scored does not mean that nothing happened- and momentum and cheering by the fans can amount to an awful lot even with no score. If a huge underdog manages to pull out a draw against a massive favorite, you can bet the screaming fans are fine with that. > [@Bijou\_Drains](#): > > Soccer needs to do the same thing as hockey: make a line where there is no offside beyond that line. It’s totally dumb to call offside 3 feet in front of the goal. In hockey if you go beyond the blue line everything is OK except you need to say out of the small crease. > > Also for soccer - why on Earth can you not pass the ball ahead if you beat the entire defense? That rule is completely bizarre and has no point at all. If you are fast enough to beat the defense than anything should be OK That makes absolutely no sense. The point of the rule is to discourage goal-hanging; your suggestion would make it perfectly okay to goal-hang, just not to _almost_ goal-hang. I don’t understand what you’re getting at with the second bit. You _can_ pass the ball ahead if the guy you’re passing to is fast enough to beat the offside trap. ---
**Author:** ![Rysto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecccb3/32.png) [@Rysto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysto)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2009, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-to-me-why-there-is-an-offsides-rule-in-hockey-and-soccer/506460/33 "2009-08-18T15:41:27Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > I don’t understand what you’re getting at with the second bit. You _can_ pass the ball ahead if the guy you’re passing to is fast enough to beat the offside trap. What he means is, if two players get past the defence and one of them has the ball, the one with the ball can’t pass to the one without the ball. This is a very strange situation to somebody who’s used to, say, hockey. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2009, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-to-me-why-there-is-an-offsides-rule-in-hockey-and-soccer/506460/34 "2009-08-18T15:43:35Z")
> [@Rysto](#): > > What he means is, if two players get past the defence and one of them has the ball, the one with the ball can’t pass to the one without the ball. This is a very strange situation to somebody who’s used to, say, hockey. Oh. That’s not true. If two players are past the last defender, the ball _can_ be passed between them, just not forwards. ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2009, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-to-me-why-there-is-an-offsides-rule-in-hockey-and-soccer/506460/35 "2009-08-18T15:44:11Z")
> [@Rysto](#): > > What he means is, if two players get past the defence and one of them has the ball, the one with the ball can’t pass to the one without the ball. This is a very strange situation to somebody who’s used to, say, hockey. It’s also not true. He can pass the ball backwards to the other player. ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2009, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-to-me-why-there-is-an-offsides-rule-in-hockey-and-soccer/506460/36 "2009-08-18T16:07:08Z")
A problem with soccer is that not only do they not score, they don’t even get a lot of shots on goal which means there is not a lot of offense. Some games one team may have less than 10 shots on goal. At least in hockey you can have a 2-1 game but the total shots could be 50 or 60. And of course hockey has a lot of speed and hitting too which fans like. (By hitting, I don’t mean fights but there are those too - I mean legal checks) I understand the offside rule about not being behind the last defender. But as I said above once you beat all the defenders why are there still restrictions on passing? That’s not hanging out by the goal - you are using speed to beat the defense. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2009, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-to-me-why-there-is-an-offsides-rule-in-hockey-and-soccer/506460/37 "2009-08-18T16:14:47Z")
I sort of see your point there, but honestly it doesn’t make any difference; if you have two plays beyond the offside trap chances are you haven’t got space to pass the ball forward anyway. Plus, in practice, referees won’t bother to whistle any pass in that situation as long as it goes “mostly sideways”. > [@Bijou\_Drains](#): > > A problem with soccer is that not only do they not score, they don’t even get a lot of shots on goal which means there is not a lot of offense. Some games one team may have less than 10 shots on goal. 85 minutes or so of every 90-minute match is “offense”. Anytime a team has the ball and is advancing it towards the other goal, that’s “offense”. So what if there aren’t a shit-ton of shots on goal? Ice hockey is a niche sport; association football is the most popular sport in the world. ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2009, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-to-me-why-there-is-an-offsides-rule-in-hockey-and-soccer/506460/38 "2009-08-18T16:22:25Z")
I guess if people passing around the ball 50 yards from a goal is offense, then I guess 85 minutes of a game is “offense” BTW, isn’t it a joke that championships are sometimes decided just by penalty kicks? I can’t think of any other major sport that decides a title by rules that have nothing to do with the actual game. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2009, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-to-me-why-there-is-an-offsides-rule-in-hockey-and-soccer/506460/39 "2009-08-18T16:30:52Z")
> [@Bijou\_Drains](#): > > BTW, isn’t it a joke that championships are sometimes decided just by penalty kicks? I can’t think of any other major sport that decides a title by rules that have nothing to do with the actual game. Necessary consequence of all the running required. Soccer games are 90 minutes long, with only one real break. Only rugby comes close (actually, rugby is more tiring because of all the contact). Playing more than half an hour of extra time after the 90 minutes would just be cruel- and possibly dangerous. Most players are cramping by the time they get to 105 minutes, and all of them are by the time they get to 120 (except the goalkeepers). > [@](#): > > I guess if people passing around the ball 50 yards from a goal is offense, then I guess 85 minutes of a game is “offense” What do you call it when a team has the ball inside its own 10-yard line in American Football? “Running three boring rushing plays so we can punt?” No, it’s called “offense”. ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2009, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-to-me-why-there-is-an-offsides-rule-in-hockey-and-soccer/506460/40 "2009-08-18T16:41:14Z")
They need penalty kicks because players are too tired? That doesn’t seem to be a problem with hockey in the playoffs. (or basketball) (And yes I know hockey has 20 guys on a team and only 6 are on the ice at 1 time. ) Those guys are still dead tired after an OT or two , partly because of all the extra gear they wear. Why not allow more subs in soccer so players are not as tired? I guess that’s just another wacko idea? After all why should the world’s most popular sport change right? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-to-me-why-there-is-an-offsides-rule-in-hockey-and-soccer/506460.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-to-me-why-there-is-an-offsides-rule-in-hockey-and-soccer/506460.md?page=3)