# Explain why Wisconsin's recall election is actually recalling anything **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [April 17, 2012, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-why-wisconsins-recall-election-is-actually-recalling-anything/619057 "2012-04-17T16:59:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Enderw24](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ba9def/32.png) [@Enderw24](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enderw24)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-why-wisconsins-recall-election-is-actually-recalling-anything/619057/1 "2012-04-17T16:59:15Z")
To my mind, a recall election should have just one question: do you wish to recall elected official X? If the majority votes no, that’s the end. If the majority votes yes, then the candidate is removed from office and a new election is held following the appropriate process. Obviously this leaves a bit of a power gap between elections should the answer be “yes” so CA back in 2003 decided to streamline the process with a two question ballot. Q1: Do you wanna recall Davis? Q2: Yes? OK then, who do you wanna vote for? Now, this runs into issues of not having a primary, streamlining the candidates, yadda yadda yadda. At least they asked the question. As I learned yesterday, and correct me if I’m wrong, WI voters won’t even get asked the question! There was a petition. Enough people signed the petition. Now there will be a vote. But it’s not a vote on whether you want to recall Scott Walker. Scott Walker just has to run again like he did last year. That’s not a recall. That’s just an annoyance. ---
**Author:** ![chrisk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@chrisk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chrisk)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-why-wisconsins-recall-election-is-actually-recalling-anything/619057/2 "2012-04-17T17:15:25Z")
Well - that’s semantics. A vote for Davis is logically and intuitively equivalent to a ‘No’ vote on your Q1. So are you just complaining that the ballot doesn’t ask the question the ‘right’ way? Or that not being in a separate question deprives Davis of a psychological advantage with voters that you think he’s entitled to from having been elected? ---
**Author:** ![Enderw24](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ba9def/32.png) [@Enderw24](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enderw24)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-why-wisconsins-recall-election-is-actually-recalling-anything/619057/3 "2012-04-17T17:37:10Z")
> [@chrisk](#): > > Well - that’s semantics. A vote for Davis is logically and intuitively equivalent to a ‘No’ vote on your Q1. So are you just complaining that the ballot doesn’t ask the question the ‘right’ way? Or that not being in a separate question deprives Davis of a psychological advantage with voters that you think he’s entitled to from having been elected? Note: it’s Walker. Davis was the recalled Gov from CA. I figured “semantics” would be the first response given. I guess that’s it. Right now Walker has to run in a primary. I haven’t looked it up but I imagine if he has competition at all it’s throwaways at best because who’s going to go up against the sitting Gov of their own party? So Walker’s going to be in the general. But the thing is that it doesn’t matter who he’s running against. To me, that’s not the point. A recall election isn’t a regular election. The question put to voters isn’t “would you rather have Scott Walker or Democratic Candidate X?” It’s “Do you want Scott Walker to remain Governor?” Full stop. End of question. To me, there’s a real difference, even if the results may end up being the same. ---
**Author:** ![President\_Johnny\_Gentle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/5f9b8f/32.png) [@President\_Johnny\_Gentle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/President_Johnny_Gentle)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-why-wisconsins-recall-election-is-actually-recalling-anything/619057/4 "2012-04-17T18:18:09Z")
It’s not just “semantics” because California isn’t the end all be all of the definition of a recall. A recall election is a referendum on whether to remove an elected official from office before the term is up. That’s it. The exact mechanism is immaterial. ---
**Author:** ![zookies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/9dc877/32.png) [@zookies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zookies)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-why-wisconsins-recall-election-is-actually-recalling-anything/619057/5 "2012-04-17T19:53:05Z")
If a couple of Teamsters asked me to sign a petition, I would sign it rather than get in a big confrontation with a group of high pressure collectivists. But in the privacy of the ballot box, I tend to vote for less government, which is what Scott Walker accomplished. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-why-wisconsins-recall-election-is-actually-recalling-anything/619057/6 "2012-04-17T20:12:00Z")
No, that’s what Walker claimed he would accomplish, but what he actually did accomplish was Big Government stomping on the neck of labor. ---
**Author:** ![howye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a9adbd/32.png) [@howye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/howye)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-why-wisconsins-recall-election-is-actually-recalling-anything/619057/7 "2012-04-17T20:32:25Z")
> [@zookies](#): > > If a couple of Teamsters asked me to sign a petition, I would sign it rather than get in a big confrontation with a group of high pressure collectivists. But in the privacy of the ballot box, I tend to vote for less government, which is what Scott Walker accomplished. Did the big scary teachers frighten you? :rolleyes: Walker accomplished nothing other than putting the sword to political enemies. In the privacy of the ballot box, I wonder who hell the stuffed me in the box. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-why-wisconsins-recall-election-is-actually-recalling-anything/619057/8 "2012-04-17T21:36:47Z")
Wait. In California, a recalled governor is forbidden from regaining the office at the next selection opportunity. It’s not that way in Wisconsin? Do they at least have the lieutenant governor take over the office until the next election? ---
**Author:** ![gatorslap](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gatorslap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gatorslap)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-why-wisconsins-recall-election-is-actually-recalling-anything/619057/9 "2012-04-17T21:38:08Z")
> [@chrisk](#): > > Well - that’s semantics. A vote for Davis is logically and intuitively equivalent to a ‘No’ vote on your Q1. So are you just complaining that the ballot doesn’t ask the question the ‘right’ way? Or that not being in a separate question deprives Davis of a psychological advantage with voters that you think he’s entitled to from having been elected? Giving someone an up or down vote is pretty different from voting for Candidate A or B. One year prior to losing office in the recall, Gray Davis had won re-election without a majority and with low approval numbers – basically, he won because the Republicans nominated a poor candidate. Also, while we replaced him with a Republican, we also could’ve replaced him with another Democrat. WI’s recall doesn’t give voters the option of voting to recall Walker, and electing another Republican in his place. A “CA-style” recall would have a somewhat greater chance of succeeding, I think. Gray Davis needed a majority to survive his recall election, whereas Walker will only need a plurality. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2012, 5:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-why-wisconsins-recall-election-is-actually-recalling-anything/619057/10 "2012-04-18T05:35:58Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Wait. In California, a recalled governor is forbidden from regaining the office at the next selection opportunity. It’s not that way in Wisconsin? No. There is only one question in a Wisconsin recall election. A recall election there essentially forces the incumbent to run for re-election early. That also means that only the person with the most votes can win. There is no possibility of being recalled by 51% of voters and replaced by someone who only got 47%. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2012, 6:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-why-wisconsins-recall-election-is-actually-recalling-anything/619057/11 "2012-04-18T06:01:31Z")
> [@Enderw24](#): > > … Right now Walker has to run in a primary. … This is a choice made by the Republicans, who put up primary candidates in BOTH parties for all six of the recall elections being held. This gives the sitting candidates more time to campaign because having a primary delayed the general election. ---
**Author:** ![Reginald\_Hobbes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/49beb7/32.png) [@Reginald\_Hobbes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reginald_Hobbes)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2012, 11:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-why-wisconsins-recall-election-is-actually-recalling-anything/619057/12 "2012-04-18T11:02:00Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > This is a choice made by the Republicans, who put up primary candidates in BOTH parties for all six of the recall elections being held. This gives the sitting candidates more time to campaign because having a primary delayed the general election. Not quite. There was going to be a Democratic Party primary for governor regardless. Falk, Barrett, Vinehout, and one other are running. The Republicans put up candidates for lt gov and the four senators to force primaries and align all six elections on the same schedule. If they hadn’t, on May 8 you would’ve had the Dem primary for governor and the general elections in the other five. It was a tactical move to remove what they felt was a disadvantage. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2012, 12:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-why-wisconsins-recall-election-is-actually-recalling-anything/619057/13 "2012-04-18T12:22:12Z")
Yes, the disadvantage the GOP removed was an earlier election date, which is what my post said. ---
**Author:** ![President\_Johnny\_Gentle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/5f9b8f/32.png) [@President\_Johnny\_Gentle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/President_Johnny_Gentle)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2012, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-why-wisconsins-recall-election-is-actually-recalling-anything/619057/14 "2012-04-18T13:22:11Z")
> [@gatorslap](#): > > WI’s recall doesn’t give voters the option of voting to recall Walker, and electing another Republican in his place. Yes, it does. Walker could potentially lose in the primary. Not likely, since he has a lot of support among Republicans and no actual Republican filed against him. In contrast, Davis would have likely been toast at that stage if California had Wisconsin rules. > [@gatorslap](#): > > A “CA-style” recall would have a somewhat greater chance of succeeding, I think. Gray Davis needed a majority to survive his recall election, whereas Walker will only need a plurality. Technically true, but the third party candidates will not take much of the vote. The winner of the election will have a majority. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2012, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-why-wisconsins-recall-election-is-actually-recalling-anything/619057/15 "2012-04-18T13:28:15Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > No, that’s what Walker claimed he would accomplish, but what he actually did accomplish was Big Government stomping on the neck of labor. Not all labor, mind you. Those unions that supported Walker were exempt from the train ride to Auschwitz. ---
**Author:** ![What\_the](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f4b2a3/32.png) [@What\_the](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_the)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2012, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-why-wisconsins-recall-election-is-actually-recalling-anything/619057/16 "2012-04-18T14:14:39Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > No, that’s what Walker claimed he would accomplish, but what he actually did accomplish was Big Government stomping on the neck of labor. Teachers with sore necks…now I know why they were able to get those doctor’s excuses to go to Madison and whine. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2012, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-why-wisconsins-recall-election-is-actually-recalling-anything/619057/17 "2012-04-18T16:26:22Z")
Prove it. Double dog dare you. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2012, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-why-wisconsins-recall-election-is-actually-recalling-anything/619057/18 "2012-04-18T16:55:56Z")
Good article on the [early history of the recall concept](http://hnn.us/articles/1660.html). For the purposes of the Wisconsin decision, probably the best way to think about it is that the recall is recalling the outcome of the election - i.e. nullifying it - rather than recalling the particular incumbent. That gives the electorate another chance to vote definitively on whether they want to keep that person or not. ---
**Author:** ![Reginald\_Hobbes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/49beb7/32.png) [@Reginald\_Hobbes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reginald_Hobbes)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2012, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-why-wisconsins-recall-election-is-actually-recalling-anything/619057/19 "2012-04-18T18:04:53Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > Not all labor, mind you. Those unions that supported Walker were exempt [Wisconsin Police and Firefighters Didn’t Endorse Walker](http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/wisconsin-police-and-firefighters-didnt-endorse-walker/) > [@](#): > > Among the many problems when a local debate goes national is that outsiders have little knowledge of the background facts and frequently labor under grossly mistaken ideas. > > For example, in the Wisconsin showdown, most of us have been laboring under the notion that Republican Governor Scott Walker exempted police and firefighters from his plan to strip collective bargaining rights from public employees because they endorsed him for election whereas the teachers’ unions and others backed his Democratic opponent. > > It turns out that this is completely untrue. Walker tells CBS News’ Chris Wragge: > > ``` > There are 314 fire and police unions in the state. Four of them endorsed me. All the rest endorsed my opponent. > > ``` > [@](#): > > from the train ride to Auschwitz. You’re actually equating the loss of collective bargaining to Auschwitz? Seriously? :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![gamerunknown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/6bbea6/32.png) [@gamerunknown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gamerunknown)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2012, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-why-wisconsins-recall-election-is-actually-recalling-anything/619057/20 "2012-04-18T18:23:49Z")
> [@Reginald Hobbes](#): > > You’re actually equating the loss of collective bargaining to Auschwitz? Seriously? Then they came for the trade unionists… [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-why-wisconsins-recall-election-is-actually-recalling-anything/619057.md?page=2)