# Explain your understanding of four way stops **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 29, 2009, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-your-understanding-of-four-way-stops/508208 "2009-08-29T22:35:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Sunspace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunspace/32/1250_2.png) [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2009, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-your-understanding-of-four-way-stops/508208/41 "2009-08-30T19:35:39Z")
Ontario: At an all-way stop, everyone must stop. The driver who gets there first can proceed first. If two or more drivers get there at the same tiome, the one on the right goes first, followed by the one second from the right, and so on. Once drivers have proceeded into the intersection, the usual rules about turning and giving way take effect: drivers turning across traffic must yield to drivers going straignt through or turning not across traffic. ---
**Author:** ![Jragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Jragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jragon)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2009, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-your-understanding-of-four-way-stops/508208/42 "2009-08-30T20:43:49Z")
> [@Zsofia](#): > > Drinking again? No! I’ve never drunken alcohol in my life. I’m too young and it scares me. If I even see alcohol I get terrified of the situation and will avoid anyone who drinks it, up to and including getting to the other side of town asap. > [@EmAnJ](#): > > That’s really annoying. If you’re supposed to go, and the other driver knows you’re supposed to go, then they are waiting for you to go. If you don’t, they wonder if they are supposed to go and start pulling out. What if you decide to go then? (I know YOU won’t, but it’s an uncertain situation in the other drivers’ eyes.) > > I always find myself thinking in those situations (where the other driver doesn’t go when they are supposed to) “Come ON, don’t you KNOW the rules of the road for four way stops? Get off the road!” or that they are a very timid driver. No, actually what I do is if I see another car I turn off my vehicle, put it in park, and stand outside so they know I won’t go. > [@ZenBeam](#): > > Follow the traffic laws as written, instead of making them up yourself. > [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > Don’t beat yourself up too badly, **Jragon**. From the tens of thousands of deaths and injuries on North American roads every year, you are a typical driver. Unfortunately. No I’m not, I’m clearly the worst driver ever. I’m at least 800000000000000000x worse than any other driver, if any driver has done anything wrong the blame should be put on ME, not them. I need ways to punish myself because I’m that terrible. I’m the worst person in the universe at this, just like everything else and I need to apologize to the world. Just changing my ways won’t make up for it, something needs to happen. I need to be bruised, beaten, lose something, or be forced to fail something to make up for it. That’s the way it works, isn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![Bearflag70](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Bearflag70](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bearflag70)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2009, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-your-understanding-of-four-way-stops/508208/43 "2009-08-30T21:21:57Z")
[hijack] Another annoyance is when I have to stop at a stop sign but cross traffic does not have a stop sign or other traffic regulation. However, some joker on the cross street stops anyway and tries to waive me through. No thanks. I don’t move in those situations, and I’ve been flipped off for it. If it happens at night, I turn off my headlights to just the parking lights, sit and wait. If I proceed to take the right of way and anything goes wrong in that situation, guess who will be determined to be at fault? [/hijack] ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2009, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-your-understanding-of-four-way-stops/508208/44 "2009-08-30T21:26:57Z")
And you people have problems with traffic circles!? ---
**Author:** ![Alan\_Smithee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/2acd7d/32.png) [@Alan\_Smithee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alan_Smithee)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2009, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-your-understanding-of-four-way-stops/508208/45 "2009-08-30T22:02:56Z")
Without reading the spoilered part of the OP or any of the thread: If one car approaches a 4-way stop, it should stop, make sure the intersection is clear, and proceed cautiously. If more than one car approaches, each car should proceed in the order in which it reached the intersection after stopping and allowing any cars already stopped to proceed. A car does not have to wait for all other cars to clear the intersection, but cars should ideally enter the intersection one at a time, and the next car should not go until it is clear that the path is clear - if for example, I am turning right and you have already stopped across from me, I should wait for you to enter the intersection and see that you are not turning left before I enter the intersection. I should not wait for you to completely cross the intersection before turning right. If more than one car arrives at the intersection simultaneously, the car on the right goes first. (Usually after both drivers look at each other and do the “You go first,” “No, _you_ go first” thing with their hands). If two cars arrive simultaneously from opposite directions on the same road, and neither is turning, obviously doesn’t matter who goes first. Both cars can proceed with caution. Neither should wait for the other. Where it gets confusing is if one car is turning left. If one car is signally a left turn and stops, and another car in the opposite direction arrives and stops _before the first car has entered the intersection_, there is a conflict between the rule that cars should proceed in the order they stop and the rule (not limited to 4-way stops) that anyone making a left turn should yield to anyone traveling straight in the opposite direction. My state (Colorado) is unclear about who has right of way, but most people seem to assume that the 4-way stop rule about cars proceeding in the order they stop overrides the rule about left turns. The same thing can happen at a two-way stop where the cross street doesn’t stop. I’m pretty sure the car turning left is supposed to yield here, but it usually doesn’t, treating it like a 4-way stop, even though it isn’t. Now I’ll see what other people say. ---
**Author:** ![Alan\_Smithee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/2acd7d/32.png) [@Alan\_Smithee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alan_Smithee)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2009, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-your-understanding-of-four-way-stops/508208/46 "2009-08-30T22:23:14Z")
Ok, I will modify my answer slightly based on what **MarmeladeBay** pointed out. If there is traffic backed up in all four directions, it makes sense for non-conflicting cars to move through simultaneously. This means that if I stop at the intersection and see that the car opposite me is about to turn right or go straight and I am turning right or going straight, I _may_ (but am not required to) proceed at the same time as the car opposite me, without waiting to take my turn after the other two cars. I don’t think this is technically allowed by the wording of most drivers’ manuals, but I’ve never seen a busy 4-way that _didn’t_ operate like this, and it doesn’t seem to cause any confusion. I think it is perfectly proper even if the statutes don’t spell it out. ---
**Author:** ![TruCelt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trucelt/32/523_2.png) [@TruCelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TruCelt)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2009, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-your-understanding-of-four-way-stops/508208/47 "2009-08-31T01:53:57Z")
First come, first served. When in doubt the person on your right goes first. If still in doubt those going straight go first If still in doubt those turning right can go. Unless there’s a fire truck, a mail truck and the president’s limo . . . in which case the mail truck has the right of way. Also, I yield to classic Corvettes, but that’s just 'cause I like to watch them roll by. ---
**Author:** ![ZenBeam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/3ab097/32.png) [@ZenBeam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZenBeam)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2009, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-your-understanding-of-four-way-stops/508208/48 "2009-08-31T02:25:29Z")
> [@Jragon](#): > > No I’m not, I’m clearly the worst driver ever. I’m at least 800000000000000000x worse than any other driver, if any driver has done anything wrong the blame should be put on ME, not them. I need ways to punish myself because I’m that terrible. I’m the worst person in the universe at this, just like everything else and I need to apologize to the world. Just changing my ways won’t make up for it, something needs to happen. I need to be bruised, beaten, lose something, or be forced to fail something to make up for it. That’s the way it works, isn’t it? :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![bouv](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bc8723/32.png) [@bouv](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bouv)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2009, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-your-understanding-of-four-way-stops/508208/49 "2009-08-31T04:43:14Z")
Didn’t read any response: Unless it’s stated otherwise at the intersection, the right of way at a 4-way intersection goes to the first person to stop, regardless of where he is turning from/to and where the other driver(s) are turning from/to. ---
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2009, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-your-understanding-of-four-way-stops/508208/50 "2009-08-31T13:39:12Z")
Without looking at other responses: My understanding is that if two cars arrive simultaneously, the car to the right has right-of-way. For head-to-head simultaneous arrivals, I don’t know for fact, but I would guess that a vehicle going straight has right-of-way over a vehicle turning left. After viewing the OP’s spoiler, it seems I’m in agreement with this. Occasionally you encounter someone who takes right-of-way out of turn, but it’s equally frustrating when someone refuses to assert their right-of-way. If someone goes when they shouldn’t, well, at least traffic is moving; but if someone doesn’t go when they’re supposed to, dammit, the intersection sits empty until someone else finally says, goddamit, I’ll go. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2009, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-your-understanding-of-four-way-stops/508208/51 "2009-08-31T13:42:29Z")
> [@Runs\_With\_Scissors](#): > > First, don’t read the replies to this thread. Post what you think are the rules regarding four way stops. In the spoiler box below, I’ll type the rule according the to State of Oregon, as taken from the Oregon Driver Manual. In Ontario, the law states that the first car to stop goes first. The driver on the left should always yield if two cars arrive at the same time or, if they are oppoisite each other, the one making a left turn should yield (or neither’s making a left turn it doesn’t matter.) No matter what the onus is on a driver to ensure they can proceed safely. At a broken traffic light, all cars must treat the intersection as a four-way stop. ON REVIEW: Apparently it’s more or less the same everywhere. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2009, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-your-understanding-of-four-way-stops/508208/52 "2009-08-31T16:33:33Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > \ > ON REVIEW: Apparently it’s more or less the same everywhere. It does seem to be, which makes it even stranger that drivers have so much of a problem with them. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2009, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-your-understanding-of-four-way-stops/508208/53 "2009-09-01T16:25:24Z")
My understanding is exactly as in the spoiler. The only thing I have to add is that I tend not to go at the same time as someone opposite me, unless they have committed. Too many people around here don’t bother to signal, so them not signaling in no way means they aren’t going to turn in front of me. I’d rather be safe. The next most common habit is to sit at an intersection, say a light, without signaling, and then, when it changes, start to signal as they pull into the intersection to make a turn. This seems to make it right in their eyes. They are a bit unclear on the concept of what signaling is all about. BTW, in 40 years of driving, many in places with lots of 4-way stops, I’ve never encountered the situation of all 4 cars arriving at the same time. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2009, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-your-understanding-of-four-way-stops/508208/54 "2009-09-01T16:53:38Z")
In my town there are more intersections controlled by stop signs than lights. While it may be unusual for 4 cars to simultaneously arrive at an intersection from the 4 directions, it is not at all unusual for traffic to back up in as many as 4 directions, resulting in a need to take turns. In such a situation, do you believe there are specific rules? Say you are approaching from N, and see that S got there and stopped first, followed by W. But you all got there close enough that momentarily you are all stopped at the same time. When S proceeds through the intersection, is it okay for you to proceed through as well? Or since W is “to your right”, is it more appropriate to wait for them? Another situation. I arrive from N and intend to turn right. W was first, S 2d, E 3d. West starts to go straight through the intersection. Do I need to let all 3 go before I make my turn? Because I feel I can turn right while W is proceeding through the intersection - provided he is either going straight or left, as he will block the other 2 cars from going. No reason to delay anything in order to be “polite.” IMO, a 4-way intersection clears most quickly if pairs of cars go at the same time whenever possible, instead of each individual car waiting for their “turn.” As someone mentioned above, the pattern will often change depending on turns, pedestrians, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Alan\_Smithee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/2acd7d/32.png) [@Alan\_Smithee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alan_Smithee)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2009, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-your-understanding-of-four-way-stops/508208/55 "2009-09-01T17:51:20Z")
My understanding is that what you describe _is_ allowed, by custom and etiquette if not statute. But you have to rely on people’s signals. In the first example, you delay W if you wait until S is halfway through the intersection before you go. If everyone is paying attention and you feel confident that you know what everyone else is doing, then go with someone else on their turn, but if you have any doubt, wait for your own turn (which means everyone who was already stopped when you stopped goes first). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-your-understanding-of-four-way-stops/508208.md?page=2)