# Explain Zoe Quinn in the least hate-filled way possible, please. **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [September 16, 2014, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-zoe-quinn-in-the-least-hate-filled-way-possible-please/698670 "2014-09-16T17:52:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![bosbfdsfd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ba8739/32.png) [@bosbfdsfd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bosbfdsfd)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2014, 6:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-zoe-quinn-in-the-least-hate-filled-way-possible-please/698670/41 "2014-09-18T06:08:35Z")
> [@Fair\_Rarity](#): > > The fact that Sarkeesian got instantaneous, outrageous backlash shows me how important her videos are. They’re no more important than the rantings of the local homeless man on the street corner screaming about the aliens. Her value lies only in being an object lesson of how toxic third wave feminists are, and how everything they touch turns to shit. > [@Fair\_Rarity](#): > > on the Movie and tv fandoms did not come after her with virtual pitchforks and torches. Because no one in any of those fandoms would take her imbecilic arguments seriously. Gamers have serious self-esteem problems and need to grow some backbones. > [@Fair\_Rarity](#): > > I don’t agree with every point she’s made, but I overall support what she’s doing because it isn’t shitting on media, just teaching people how to look at things differently. The only thing she’s “teaching” is that she’s an unrepentant fraud, in addition to being an incredibly shallow thinker. She’s Jack Thompson with a vagina, the only difference being that he was laughed out of the room by games “journalists,” and not embarrassingly deified. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2014, 7:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-zoe-quinn-in-the-least-hate-filled-way-possible-please/698670/42 "2014-09-18T07:28:15Z")
[Poltergeist] They’re here! [/Poltergeist] ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2014, 7:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-zoe-quinn-in-the-least-hate-filled-way-possible-please/698670/43 "2014-09-18T07:45:50Z")
> [@bosbfdsfd](#): > > They’re no more important than the rantings of the local homeless man on the street corner screaming about the aliens. Her value lies only in being an object lesson of how toxic third wave feminists are, and how everything they touch turns to shit. > > Because no one in any of those fandoms would take her imbecilic arguments seriously. Gamers have serious self-esteem problems and need to grow some backbones. > > The only thing she’s “teaching” is that she’s an unrepentant fraud, in addition to being an incredibly shallow thinker. She’s Jack Thompson with a vagina, the only difference being that he was laughed out of the room by games “journalists,” and not embarrassingly deified. …now now now, these are nice forums. You shouldn’t use your first two posts here to be so ANGRY! 🙂 I mean, what exactly are you so angry about? But if you really want to express yourself, feel free to step over to the pit thread. Then that will give us the opportunity to express ourselves to you as well. 🙂 > **[Gamergate](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=733230)** > > This doesn’t seem to have cropped up on the board as of yet, but this is highly pit-worthy. If you work as a video-game “journalist”, don’t use nerd as an insult. Don’t insult video-games or gamers. Don’t say “video-games are dead”. Don’t call your... ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2014, 8:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-zoe-quinn-in-the-least-hate-filled-way-possible-please/698670/44 "2014-09-18T08:35:21Z")
> [@steronz](#): > > If it were just a permanent record of asshole comments, maybe, but these people also get personal email address, phone numbers, home addresses, places of employment… if people used to say things out of earshot, now they say them directly to you, over the phone, via email, via text, they go to the places you hang out online and say them there, they say them to your boss, your family, your friends… > > I don’t know how deep the misogyny goes, but even shallow misogyny, if you’re willing to excuse it as such, combine with internet vigilantism can completely ruin someone’s life for a few months, years, or more. I don’t know why you’d want to compare assholes like that to cute 3-year-olds saying “shit” to get a laugh. You miss my point. Twice. My first point was merely that I don’t think racism and misogyny have grown, it’s just that its visibilty has. There’s no denying that (as you say) the internet has created whole new ways to be an asshole. Secondly, it’s pretty much a truism that if one seeks to _explain_ something about assholes someone will always leap to the conclusion one is _excusing_ assholes. Thanks for not disappointing me in that respect. My point about the shallowness of the misogyny is not that that makes it OK, but just that I think it’s not really about that: it’s more that I suspect these assholes are just trollish. They do whatever the hell they can to upset people. That misogyny happens to be something that riles people up real good is happenstance. ---
**Author:** ![bucketybuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@bucketybuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bucketybuck)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2014, 8:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-zoe-quinn-in-the-least-hate-filled-way-possible-please/698670/45 "2014-09-18T08:43:46Z")
I kept seeing these multiple page threads popping up on multiple forums and I could never really understand what all the fuss was about, so thanks for starting this thread for us normal people. Even that thread in the pit is full of frothing rubbish. Now that it has been explained what strikes me is how utterly inane this all is and yet it has warranted so much attention (relatively speaking). Its a “gate” for gods sake, anything with a “gate” on the end should be more important than this. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2014, 8:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-zoe-quinn-in-the-least-hate-filled-way-possible-please/698670/46 "2014-09-18T08:43:51Z")
> [@bosbfdsfd](#): > > It’s fairly straightforward. Zoe Quinn, lacking marketable talent of any kind, decided to become a professional victim by proclaiming that she was a feminist (not a real one, of course, but since she’s also an incredible liar, that hardly matters). Her ex-boyfriend posted proof that her personal and professional conduct completely contradicted and undermined her status as an icon of feminism, and instead of apologizing like any adult would do, she threw a temper tantrum, and, aided by every games “journalist” in the world, attempted to shout down everyone else who recognized that she was a horrible person and not worthy of being taken seriously anymore (anathema to the “I’m oppressed, give me money” types). Unfortunately for her and the bloggers who worship the ground she walks on, the people she’s spent her entire “career” insulting and degrading aren’t letting this go, no matter what they do. She’s done in the court of public opinion, and now exists only as an object of ridicule, and a perfect example of the contempt that fake games journalists have for their audience. Thanks for clearing that up. If it wasn’t for posts by randoms on message boards I would never know the truth about anything. ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2014, 11:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-zoe-quinn-in-the-least-hate-filled-way-possible-please/698670/47 "2014-09-18T11:07:44Z")
My old fart question is the same as it was during Elevatorgate: why aren’t flocks of lawyers swooping in picking pockets like vultures plucking eyeballs? If the Beatles can end up suing each other and everyone else in sight, what’s wrong with the current generation? I can’t believe its simply because of the relatively youth of the participants. “Litigation takes the place of sex at middle age.” - Gore Vidal ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2014, 11:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-zoe-quinn-in-the-least-hate-filled-way-possible-please/698670/48 "2014-09-18T11:27:57Z")
Sue who over what to achieve what? The Streisand effect means that suing over this sort of thing just makes it worse, if you are trying to play something down. And suing internet nobodies is a losing proposition. ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2014, 11:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-zoe-quinn-in-the-least-hate-filled-way-possible-please/698670/49 "2014-09-18T11:55:44Z")
Pretty much everything done by everyone on all sides of this issue has made it worse. A lawyer comes in, looks for something plausibly actionable, looks for a link to someone or something plausibly liable and who has money, and we’re off to the slug races! I don’t know about Australia, but in The UK, the law has (finally) gone after internet nobodies who’ve made death and rape threats. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2014, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-zoe-quinn-in-the-least-hate-filled-way-possible-please/698670/50 "2014-09-18T14:42:09Z")
> [@Fair\_Rarity](#): > > The fact that Sarkeesian got instantaneous, outrageous backlash shows me how important her videos are. That’s not much of a standard. The Loose Change videos on YouTube (regarding a 9/11 conspiracy) also received instantaneous, outrageous backlash – mainly because they were rock-stupid, provided cherry-picked information and gave a fake, twisted view of events to promote an agenda. Not that Sarkeesian is at the same level as 9/11 conspiracy theories but “received a lot of negative backlash” isn’t an indicator that someone is correct or sincere. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2014, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-zoe-quinn-in-the-least-hate-filled-way-possible-please/698670/51 "2014-09-18T14:52:26Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > That’s not much of a standard. The Loose Change videos on YouTube (regarding a 9/11 conspiracy) also received instantaneous, outrageous backlash – mainly because they were rock-stupid, provided cherry-picked information and gave a fake, twisted view of events to promote an agenda. Not that Sarkeesian is at the same level as 9/11 conspiracy theories but “received a lot of negative backlash” isn’t an indicator that someone is correct or sincere. Uh, no. Sarkeesian got backlash _before she even made the videos_. Her kickstarter campaign was blasted, mocked, hated upon and some counter-kickstarters were started to blast her and her ideas. Loose Change was viral but wasn’t blasted until it came across people’s FB pages. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2014, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-zoe-quinn-in-the-least-hate-filled-way-possible-please/698670/52 "2014-09-18T14:57:48Z")
Sure, I laughed at her Kickstarter as well when I first saw it because it was obvious even then that she already had a predetermined agenda and was just looking to make videos to project that agenda, not because she was looking to do “research” to see if she was correct or not. There was no scenario where she would have played all those games and said “You know what, I was wrong.” Instead, she had a list of 12 tropes guaranteed to pigeonhole every female character ever and she was going to make sure each one found their home. So, yeah, it was blasted from the start for being ridiculous, not because she was so correct. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2014, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-zoe-quinn-in-the-least-hate-filled-way-possible-please/698670/53 "2014-09-18T15:02:01Z")
> [@Slithy\_Tove](#): > > Pretty much everything done by everyone on all sides of this issue has made it worse. A lawyer comes in, looks for something plausibly actionable, looks for a link to someone or something plausibly liable and who has money, and we’re off to the slug races! > > I don’t know about Australia, but in The UK, the law has (finally) gone after internet nobodies who’ve made death and rape threats. The problem is the “someone with deep pockets” part. No civil lawyer would want to wade into this mess unless they were sure of being paid - and do any of the participants have significant cash? My bystander’s impression is “no”. Criminal matters are a different issue - a prosecutor could get interested in death and harm threats, depending on their budget for such stuff. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2014, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-zoe-quinn-in-the-least-hate-filled-way-possible-please/698670/54 "2014-09-18T15:10:04Z")
Maybe some sort of reverse class action suit? ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2014, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-zoe-quinn-in-the-least-hate-filled-way-possible-please/698670/55 "2014-09-18T15:20:44Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Maybe some sort of reverse class action suit? You can have a defendant class, though this is unusual. The problem is one of the economics. Plantiff classes “work” economically because each plaintiff in the class has a financial incentive to participate - they get a (usually modest) pay-out, with (usually) plantiff counsel taking around one-third as a contingency fee. The plaintiffs in the class contact class counsel - that’s why you sometimes see adds in the media, advertising for potential plaintiffs (“where you injured by asbestos? If so, contact …”). With a defentant class, how is the lawyer going to chase down each and every defendant and get them to contribute? They have no incentive to do so voluntarily. They are likely to be in multiple jurisdictions, requiring yet further court proceedings to get ‘recognition and enforcement’ of the local judgment against them. Unless the sums from each defendant are substantial, it will not be worth it. ---
**Author:** ![jtur88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e9c0ed/32.png) [@jtur88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jtur88)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2014, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-zoe-quinn-in-the-least-hate-filled-way-possible-please/698670/56 "2014-09-18T15:27:48Z")
How about “I’ve never heard of Zoe Quinn, who is she?”? Is that sufficiently “least hate-filled”? ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2014, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-zoe-quinn-in-the-least-hate-filled-way-possible-please/698670/57 "2014-09-18T15:45:42Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > Sure, I laughed at her Kickstarter as well when I first saw it because it was obvious even then that she already had a predetermined agenda and was just looking to make videos to project that agenda, not because she was looking to do “research” to see if she was correct or not. There was no scenario where she would have played all those games and said “You know what, I was wrong.” > > Instead, she had a list of 12 tropes guaranteed to pigeonhole every female character ever and she was going to make sure each one found their home. So, yeah, it was blasted from the start for being ridiculous, not because she was so correct. Be that as it may, it does show that she was being attacked critically (fairly or unfairly) from the get-go. By comparison, Loose Change was on its _2nd edition_ before most people heard of it. I had been actively mashing down 911 CT nutters since almost 9/12/01 and I hadn’t heard of LC until it started plopping down on social media and on message boards. After that, hell yeah I blasted the heck out of its claims, but it was full of stupid from the get-go. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2014, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-zoe-quinn-in-the-least-hate-filled-way-possible-please/698670/58 "2014-09-18T16:00:29Z")
Really, my goal isn’t to litigate the similarities or differences between the two but just to point out that “Received immediate backlash” isn’t evidence that either side is correct. You’re “right” because you have your facts together, are accurate and make a compelling case not because someone else got mad at you. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2014, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-zoe-quinn-in-the-least-hate-filled-way-possible-please/698670/59 "2014-09-18T16:21:48Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > Really, my goal isn’t to litigate the similarities or differences between the two but just to point out that “Received immediate backlash” isn’t evidence that either side is correct. You’re “right” because you have your facts together, are accurate and make a compelling case not because someone else got mad at you. Alright, point taken. ---
**Author:** ![Ellen\_Cherry](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellen_cherry/32/3600_2.png) [@Ellen\_Cherry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ellen_Cherry)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2014, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-zoe-quinn-in-the-least-hate-filled-way-possible-please/698670/60 "2014-09-18T20:08:58Z")
> [@jtur88](#): > > How about “I’ve never heard of Zoe Quinn, who is she?”? Is that sufficiently “least hate-filled”? The OP contains a link. If you’ve never heard of her, you are not compelled to reply. In other words, no threadshitting. If your ire is sufficient, you know the way to the pit. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-zoe-quinn-in-the-least-hate-filled-way-possible-please/698670.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-zoe-quinn-in-the-least-hate-filled-way-possible-please/698670.md?page=4)