# Explicitly saying the Jews are vermin earns a note and not a Warning. WTF? **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [April 13, 2014, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explicitly-saying-the-jews-are-vermin-earns-a-note-and-not-a-warning-wtf/686028 "2014-04-13T18:28:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Ellen\_Cherry](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellen_cherry/32/3600_2.png) [@Ellen\_Cherry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ellen_Cherry)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2014, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explicitly-saying-the-jews-are-vermin-earns-a-note-and-not-a-warning-wtf/686028/101 "2014-04-15T18:18:56Z")
I agree I should have given the statement a warning, and not a “note” and I’m sorry I didn’t get back in time to make the change, after the staff talked about it. It was clearly an out-of-line thing to say, but at the time I thought it was mitigated by an attempt at a joke. But that’s really no excuse. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2014, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explicitly-saying-the-jews-are-vermin-earns-a-note-and-not-a-warning-wtf/686028/102 "2014-04-15T18:19:17Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > The moderators don’t necessarily give _the correct_ decisions. They give \*final \*ones. Which is the way it has to be, since universal agreement of the correct thing to do will never be reached. > > You aren’t vindicated by this, imho. You over-reacted because you didn’t understand the nature of the joke and took unwarranted offense. But nothing can be done now, so meh. What is correct is subjective and reasonable people can disagree, as you are well aware. I wasn’t looking for vindication and I don’t feel vindicated in any way. I did understand the joke, it wasn’t exactly subtle, and I don’t feel that the offense was unwarranted, obviously. I thought that it crossed a line and your line is further away, if it exists at all. But, yeah, meh. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2014, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explicitly-saying-the-jews-are-vermin-earns-a-note-and-not-a-warning-wtf/686028/103 "2014-04-15T19:41:59Z")
> [@JKellyMap](#): > > Moving on, then… I personally thought chacoguy’s comment to Ibn Warraq didn’t deserve a warning. Obviously, he/she assumed (surely wrongly) that Ibn was disparagingly saying “once a Jew, always a Jew,” and parodied the anti-Semitic mindset that could have (though surely, in this case, didn’t) underlay that comment. > > So, incorrect assumption, yes; a bit over-the-top way of expressing critical astonishment, yes; but no more than that. (Perhaps I’m unaware of some back story which does put this into “warning deserved” territory.) FWIW, I agree. He clearly misinterpreted what I was asking and was clearly trying to express disgust with what he thought was an anti-Semitic question. I understand Tuba’s decision but I’d ask his warning he dialed back to a mod note. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2014, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explicitly-saying-the-jews-are-vermin-earns-a-note-and-not-a-warning-wtf/686028/104 "2014-04-15T22:37:52Z")
A few years back there were concerns that the moderation at this board was too tight. Now it seems the SDMB mob believes that it is, on the whole, too lenient. This characterization is based upon multiple ATMB dramas, and not just this one. ## Interesting. chacoguy: Two faux anti-Semitic one liners in one thread is really too many. And the first one (gasser) wasn’t _that_ funny though it made its point. IMO only. ---
**Author:** ![R3d\_Anonymous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/aeb1de/32.png) [@R3d\_Anonymous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/R3d_Anonymous)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2014, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explicitly-saying-the-jews-are-vermin-earns-a-note-and-not-a-warning-wtf/686028/105 "2014-04-15T23:23:36Z")
I enjoyed reading this thread. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2014, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explicitly-saying-the-jews-are-vermin-earns-a-note-and-not-a-warning-wtf/686028/106 "2014-04-15T23:43:30Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > **Moderator Note** > > This is ATMB. Personal jabs against other posters are not appropriate here. Don’t do this again. I meant it as a joke. But perhaps it cuts too close to the bone. My apologies. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2014, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explicitly-saying-the-jews-are-vermin-earns-a-note-and-not-a-warning-wtf/686028/107 "2014-04-15T23:48:51Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Being a jerk. For making a bad joke? No one seems to think he’s antisemitic, so all he is guilty of is failing at humor. So the explanation doesn’t make sense. **BPC** may or may not be a jerk, but there was a specific item at issue: the joke that is the reason for this thread. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2014, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explicitly-saying-the-jews-are-vermin-earns-a-note-and-not-a-warning-wtf/686028/108 "2014-04-16T16:42:32Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > For making a bad joke? No one seems to think he’s antisemitic, so all he is guilty of is failing at humor. So the explanation doesn’t make sense. > > **BPC** may or may not be a jerk, but there was a specific item at issue: the joke that is the reason for this thread. Chance gave me a Official Warning for “_Appropriate user name, tho_.” (He said it was a “Personal Insult” due the the posters Posting ID.) in Great debates, so apparently they changed the policy about “it was only a joke”. I wish they had mentioned it. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2014, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explicitly-saying-the-jews-are-vermin-earns-a-note-and-not-a-warning-wtf/686028/109 "2014-04-16T17:14:06Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > For making a bad joke? No one seems to think he’s antisemitic, so all he is guilty of is failing at humor. The problem isn’t that the joke was just not funny, it’s that it was a really crude and offensive thing to say and he didn’t even really indicate it was a joke. We might tolerate offensive humor in a thread where the OP asks for crude jokes, but that thread wasn’t one of those. **Budget Player Cadet** just popped into a thread about pests and called Jews vermin. I accept that he didn’t mean that personally, but that doesn’t change the words he wrote or the reaction some people had when they saw them. ---
**Author:** ![Rhythmdvl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@Rhythmdvl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhythmdvl)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2014, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explicitly-saying-the-jews-are-vermin-earns-a-note-and-not-a-warning-wtf/686028/110 "2014-04-16T18:29:40Z")
It also, for right or wrong (pragmatically speaking), involved one of the many ‘protected’ classes on the SDMB. Had he said ‘Gypsies’, a similar reaction may have arose from a much smaller subset of people. ‘Fat people’, perhaps a larger cross-section. Had he said ‘short people’, the so-called joke would have been the same, but since short people got nobody, the uproar would have been minimum. I think the original mod note giving stern direction was correct. A warning with the follow-up “you’re about to get banned if you offend anyone again” was unnecessary and reactionary, especially as we have (for good reasons) a fairly vague line and consistency of moderation of such transgressions. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2014, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explicitly-saying-the-jews-are-vermin-earns-a-note-and-not-a-warning-wtf/686028/111 "2014-04-16T18:36:40Z")
> [@Rhythmdvl](#): > > ‘Fat people’, perhaps a larger cross-section. I find that offensive! ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2014, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explicitly-saying-the-jews-are-vermin-earns-a-note-and-not-a-warning-wtf/686028/112 "2014-04-16T21:12:01Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > The problem isn’t that the joke was just not funny, it’s that it was a really crude and offensive thing to say and he didn’t even really indicate it was a joke. We might tolerate offensive humor in a thread where the OP asks for crude jokes, but that thread wasn’t one of those. **Budget Player Cadet** just popped into a thread about pests and called Jews vermin. I accept that he didn’t mean that personally, but that doesn’t change the words he wrote or the reaction some people had when they saw them. Fine. But after he explained it was a bad joke, AND that he was Jewish, that should have mitigated any concern you might have had. And as another poster pointed out, he had zero history of any antis emetic statements on the board in all his time. Question for you: do YOU think he is antisemitic? And if not, what was gained by issuing him a Warning that would not have been accomplished by a note? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2014, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explicitly-saying-the-jews-are-vermin-earns-a-note-and-not-a-warning-wtf/686028/113 "2014-04-16T21:17:48Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Fine. But after he explained it was a bad joke, AND that he was Jewish, that should have mitigated any concern you might have had. Why? It didn’t change the fact that the comment was off-topic, crude, and generally vile and that we don’t want posters to do what he did there. His sincerity was not the issue. > [@](#): > > Question for you: do YOU think he is antisemitic? I neither know nor care. > [@](#): > > And if not, what was gained by issuing him a Warning that would not have been accomplished by a note? It sends a firmer message that posts like that are not welcome. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2014, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explicitly-saying-the-jews-are-vermin-earns-a-note-and-not-a-warning-wtf/686028/114 "2014-04-16T21:19:27Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > For making a bad joke? No one seems to think he’s antisemitic, so all he is guilty of is failing at humor. So the explanation doesn’t make sense. > > **BPC** may or may not be a jerk, but there was a specific item at issue: the joke that is the reason for this thread. Vermin has a particular context relating to Jews that short people or liberals doesn’t have. So just dropping “Jews”, even with the yuck-yuck tag, was beyond the pale. Sometimes making an offensive joke that goes beyond the pale is being a jerk, even if it doesn’t reflect your personal beliefs. For me, seeing that comment in an innocuous thread was like a slap in the face, given my personal background I mentioned in the pit thread. Literally, I felt sick to my stomach. Once I saw it had been modded I didn’t report it, but I wasn’t upset when I saw the issue was brought up. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2014, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explicitly-saying-the-jews-are-vermin-earns-a-note-and-not-a-warning-wtf/686028/115 "2014-04-16T21:33:59Z")
> [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > Vermin has a particular context relating to Jews that short people or liberals doesn’t have. So just dropping “Jews”, even with the yuck-yuck tag, was beyond the pale. Sometimes making an offensive joke that goes beyond the pale is being a jerk, even if it doesn’t reflect your personal beliefs. > > For me, seeing that comment in an innocuous thread was like a slap in the face, given my personal background I mentioned in the pit thread. Literally, I felt sick to my stomach. Once I saw it had been modded I didn’t report it, but I wasn’t upset when I saw the issue was brought up. Then you did exactly the right thing: nothing! We all get offended. Even by jokes, even ethnic jokes—even really, really bad edgy ones that fail. Not every time we are offended does that mean Mod action is warranted. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2014, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explicitly-saying-the-jews-are-vermin-earns-a-note-and-not-a-warning-wtf/686028/116 "2014-04-16T21:42:17Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Then you did exactly the right thing: nothing! > > We all get offended. Even by jokes, even ethnic jokes—even really, really bad edgy ones that fail. Not every time we are offended does that mean Mod action is warranted. You misunderstand. Had no one else reported it I would have. I didn’t need to. This is not an anything goes board. It’s not 4Chan. I read here because I can generally expect to not come face to face with ethnic slurs, insults and nasty comments. However, I don’t have to censor myself- if I’m offended I can tell the mods and let them decide what to do. If I don’t agree, I can speak up, but ultimately I personally can’t force a consequence, nor should I. However, that doesn’t mean my opinion isn’t worth being considered or at least expressed. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2014, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explicitly-saying-the-jews-are-vermin-earns-a-note-and-not-a-warning-wtf/686028/117 "2014-04-16T21:44:51Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Why? It didn’t change the fact that the comment was off-topic, crude, and generally vile and that we don’t want posters to do what he did there. His sincerity was not the issue. Sure it was. On the one hand, he could have been a Jew-hating member of the Nazi party planning violence on the next synagogue. On the other, he could have been a young Jewish guy who attempted a dumb inappropriate joke that fell flat and made him look bad and he realized at and apologized. Those things should be viewed through VERY different spectrums. Not doing so brings to mind the zero-tolerance stupidity we see in our schools. > [@Marley23](#): > > I neither know nor care. Well, that’s really, really too bad, because you should. Because it matters. See above. You really shouldn’t be so proud of not caring about the particulars of the situation. Again, think zero-tolerance policies. Do you really want to be on the side of that nonsense? > [@Marley23](#): > > It sends a firmer message that posts like that are not welcome. He had already explained himself, explained he was Jewish, and apologized. What “firmer” message was needed? Answer: none. And by that time, it had become enough of a discussion that the message was delivered to spectators, as well. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2014, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explicitly-saying-the-jews-are-vermin-earns-a-note-and-not-a-warning-wtf/686028/118 "2014-04-16T21:54:17Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Sure it was. On the one hand, he could have been a Jew-hating member of the Nazi party planning violence on the next synagogue. On the other, he could have been a young Jewish guy who attempted a dumb inappropriate joke that fell flat and made him look bad and he realized at and apologized. Those things should be viewed through VERY different spectrums. We don’t want people to do either one. I think that’s a pretty reasonable position: whatever your personal background is, we don’t want people to say things that come across as deeply hateful to people of other races or religions (or related groups etc.). We shouldn’t have to start doing research to figure out a poster’s sincerity if he calls a group of people vermin. He should know not to say it. > [@](#): > > Again, think zero-tolerance policies. Do you really want to be on the side of that nonsense? We gave the guy a warning, not a death sentence or even a ban. That being said, I think I’m OK with being zero tolerance on statements like “Jews are vermin.” ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2014, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explicitly-saying-the-jews-are-vermin-earns-a-note-and-not-a-warning-wtf/686028/119 "2014-04-16T22:01:13Z")
> [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > You misunderstand. Had no one else reported it I would have. I didn’t need to. > > This is not an anything goes board. It’s not 4Chan. I read here because I can generally expect to not come face to face with ethnic slurs, insults and nasty comments. However, I don’t have to censor myself- if I’m offended I can tell the mods and let them decide what to do. If I don’t agree, I can speak up, but ultimately I personally can’t force a consequence, nor should I. However, that doesn’t mean my opinion isn’t worth being considered or at least expressed. And I wouldn’t even fault you for reporting it. And if the Mods had simply issued him a little note—especially in light of his apologizing, his lack of anything like that in the past, and him being Jewish—I wouldn’t be faulting them either. But given the facts, it really does bring to mind those asinine suspend-your-brain zero tolerance policies that treats the same an Eagle scout kid with a small pocketknife and a gang member with a switchblade. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2014, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explicitly-saying-the-jews-are-vermin-earns-a-note-and-not-a-warning-wtf/686028/120 "2014-04-16T22:07:59Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > And I wouldn’t even fault you for reporting it. And if the Mods had simply issued him a little note—especially in light of his apologizing, his lack of anything like that in the past, and him being Jewish—I wouldn’t be faulting them either. > > But given the facts, it really does bring to mind those asinine suspend-your-brain zero tolerance policies that treats the same an Eagle scout kid with a small pocketknife and a gang member with a switchblade. Yes, it can bring those policies to mind, but I think once you scratch the surface it’s more than that. People brought up similar comments that were modded differently, people indicated the degree to which it was offensive and the context which may not have been immediately apparent etc. The final mod action came after responses from the community and discussions by the mods. It’s not a knee jerk zero tolerance reaction, but in response to and after community discussion. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explicitly-saying-the-jews-are-vermin-earns-a-note-and-not-a-warning-wtf/686028.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explicitly-saying-the-jews-are-vermin-earns-a-note-and-not-a-warning-wtf/686028.md?page=7)