# Exploding Pagers in Lebanon {2024-09-17} **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [September 17, 2024, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/exploding-pagers-in-lebanon-2024-09-17/1007395 "2024-09-17T18:27:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2024, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/exploding-pagers-in-lebanon-2024-09-17/1007395/181 "2024-09-19T01:51:46Z")
Ok, but you were just talking about “minor injuries”. Do you take that back? ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2024, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/exploding-pagers-in-lebanon-2024-09-17/1007395/182 "2024-09-19T01:53:16Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > This is a terror attack. It’s not a terror attack. It’s hard to imagine a _more_ discriminate mass attack. A targeted assassination is almost perfectly discriminate but you can’t do that against thousands simultaneously. This is the next best thing. Even a bomb dropped on a pure military facility will kill some civilians; probably even some children. Impossible to avoid completely. Every pager here went to a Hezbollah militant. Obviously one can’t be sure that the devices were in the possession of the target at the exact time they went off, but it’s about as close as is reasonably possible. You can see from the videos that they were almost perfectly selective. Even people standing a couple feet away were unharmed. Only those with the devices right next to them were injured or killed. Terror attacks deliberately target non-combatants. This was exactly the opposite. We’ll never know if Hezbollah would receive the same criticism because in no universe would they behave this selectively toward combatants. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2024, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/exploding-pagers-in-lebanon-2024-09-17/1007395/183 "2024-09-19T01:54:21Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Perhaps Hezbollah should have thought about that before they started launching missiles at soccer fields where children were playing. By the same logic _Hezbollah_ is justified in bombing those fields because of Israel’s own genocidal behavior. There’s no “good guy” faction here. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2024, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/exploding-pagers-in-lebanon-2024-09-17/1007395/184 "2024-09-19T01:55:09Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > By the same logic _Hezbollah_ is justified in bombing those fields because of Israel’s own genocidal behavior. Cite for soccer-playing Israeli children committing genocide against Lebanon? ---
**Author:** ![ParallelLines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/parallellines/32/3575_2.png) [@ParallelLines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParallelLines)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2024, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/exploding-pagers-in-lebanon-2024-09-17/1007395/185 "2024-09-19T01:56:22Z")
I know this is NOT a breaking news thread (wrong forum) but could I politely ask you folks to take it to one of the political or Pit threads to debate the validity of the action? I’m trying to get good information on the event, and we have at least a half dozen threads to talk about the comparative morality already. Just a request from one of your information seeking fellows. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2024, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/exploding-pagers-in-lebanon-2024-09-17/1007395/186 "2024-09-19T02:00:23Z")
Right and I will say for me personally, that even if we were to call this a terrorist attack it does belong in its own special bracket. Targeting mostly hezbollah does mean it’s pretty much normal warfare. However, it is true that in the US this would be looked at very differently with roles reversed. And yes there are Israelis guilty of war crimes, including killing US citizens and have ICC arrest warrants. So let’s not pretend any asymmetry is baked in by Israel just humanely defending itself. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2024, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/exploding-pagers-in-lebanon-2024-09-17/1007395/187 "2024-09-19T02:14:34Z")
It’s hard to speculate on something so distant from our reality. Almost everything Hezbollah does is plain old terrorism by any reasonable standard, such as the unguided rockets they send into Israel. Their actions in Gaza notwithstanding, Israel’s attack here is not that. The most you can say is that it did undoubtedly strike fear into the civilian population. But that clearly wasn’t the goal and it wasn’t because they were subject to indiscriminate attacks. ---
**Author:** ![chappachula](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d2c977/32.png) [@chappachula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chappachula)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2024, 7:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/exploding-pagers-in-lebanon-2024-09-17/1007395/188 "2024-09-19T07:08:23Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > In terms of its size and relative sophistication, it is comparable to a middling infantry force for the region but lacks almost completely for any crewed aircraft, heavy artillery, or armored vehicles. In a head-on confrontation with the Israeli Defense Forces, they would basically be fodder. This is a disturbingly glib way to hand-wave away and dismiss a very, very dangerous enemy. Hezbollah has a quarter million missiles capable of hitting every city and every private home in Israel. They have precise guided missiles (provided by Iran ) which can ground the entire Israeli Air Force ,by destroying the runways at 4 locations. They have 20 or 30 thousand combat-experienced soldiers (minus the 3000 whose pagers exploded yesterday). And they have a vast network of tunnels to attack from. It is not a rag-tag “middling infantry force”. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2024, 8:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/exploding-pagers-in-lebanon-2024-09-17/1007395/189 "2024-09-19T08:11:23Z")
While no one (no one sane) wants to see an expanded or extended conflict or any other kind of head-on confrontation, Israel has overwhelmingly more guys and more weapons, many of whom are already deployed in the region. As for whether the brass has learned important lessons from previous Lebanese campaigns, I hope we don’t find out. ---
**Author:** ![chappachula](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d2c977/32.png) [@chappachula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chappachula)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2024, 8:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/exploding-pagers-in-lebanon-2024-09-17/1007395/190 "2024-09-19T08:37:50Z")
> [@DPRK](#): > > Israel has overwhelmingly more guys and more weapons The war won’t be fought by Hezbolla’s guys on the battlefield. It’s all missiles, launched from underground tunnels. Their ground forces are for quick terrorist raids across rhe border, then retreating to their tunnels. Till now, Hezbollah has restrained itself due to the basic logic of MAD (mutual assured destruction.). The city if Beirut is their political base, and they don’t want to destroy it. But they are Shiites who glorify martydom. They may decide , like Hamas did, that they don’t care about the lives of their own citizens. They may decide to sacrifice Beirut. And Israel has few other ways to threaten Hez. ---
**Author:** ![OldOlds](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a3d4f5/32.png) [@OldOlds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldOlds)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2024, 11:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/exploding-pagers-in-lebanon-2024-09-17/1007395/191 "2024-09-19T11:06:21Z")
It’s hard to keep up with these threads, as they move so fast. But, regarding two things I think worth noting: It won’t be only Hezbollah using pagers. Even here in the US many hospitals still use them. And regarding the lack of sympathy for the innocents, let’s remember that Lebanon is not Gaza. Shias make up about 1/3 of Lebanon’s population, with (roughly) another 1/3 Sunni and 1/3 Christian. Only the Shia broadly support Hezbollah. ---
**Author:** ![Chad\_Sudan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chad_sudan/32/4509_2.png) [@Chad\_Sudan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chad_Sudan)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2024, 11:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/exploding-pagers-in-lebanon-2024-09-17/1007395/192 "2024-09-19T11:30:56Z")
> [@OldOlds](#): > > It won’t be only Hezbollah using pagers. Even here in the US many hospitals still use them. From the _New York Times_: > Officials said that Hezbollah had ordered more than 3,000 pagers from Gold Apollo, distributing them not just to fighters, but also to rank-and-file members across Lebanon and in Syria and Iran. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2024, 12:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/exploding-pagers-in-lebanon-2024-09-17/1007395/193 "2024-09-19T12:10:14Z")
I know I started this thread, but I have the info I was looking for (thanks, everyone)! It seems to be veering into yet another Israel thread and I’m not interested in that, so I’m unsubscribing. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2024, 12:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/exploding-pagers-in-lebanon-2024-09-17/1007395/194 "2024-09-19T12:36:36Z")
Moderating: > [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > > [@Smapti](#): > > > > Perhaps Hezbollah should have thought about that before they started launching missiles at soccer fields where children were playing. > > By the same logic _Hezbollah_ is justified in bombing those fields because of Israel’s own genocidal behavior. > > There’s no “good guy” faction here. This is not the place to argue “Israel’s genocidal behavior”. We have a pit thread for that where posters are allowed to make and defend claims of that nature. This is a thread about a specific attack, and it would be helpful to stick to that and its repercussions, not to re-litigate the entire Israeli conflict. Please don’t go there again. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2024, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/exploding-pagers-in-lebanon-2024-09-17/1007395/195 "2024-09-19T15:12:34Z")
> [@OldOlds](#): > > It won’t be only Hezbollah using pagers. Even here in the US many hospitals still use them. Only the batch of pagers ordered by Hezbollah was rigged with explosives. If hospitals there were using them, they were given them by Hezbollah. To what extent hospital workers there have a choice in the matter may be another question. But they didn’t blow up every pager in the country, or pagers randomly ordered by individuals, or pagers ordered specifically by hospitals. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2024, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/exploding-pagers-in-lebanon-2024-09-17/1007395/196 "2024-09-19T15:40:50Z")
Even in Lebanon, I _really_ doubt people outside Hezbollah are using pagers. They’re probably using smartphones like everyone else. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2024, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/exploding-pagers-in-lebanon-2024-09-17/1007395/197 "2024-09-19T15:44:21Z")
When i needed to reach my doctor urgently, and when my mother’s surgeon wanted me to let her know when i was outside the locked door she wanted me to go through, they have me their cell phone numbers. They did not ask to be paged. I’m dubious about anyone using pagers outside of fringe groups with special needs, like Hezbollah. I’m a little surprised you can still buy them. ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2024, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/exploding-pagers-in-lebanon-2024-09-17/1007395/198 "2024-09-19T16:03:29Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > I’m a little surprised you can still buy them. That’s the genius of Capitalism. When the market demands, the invisible hand Mossad supplies. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2024, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/exploding-pagers-in-lebanon-2024-09-17/1007395/199 "2024-09-19T16:04:18Z")
> [@gnoitall](#): > > When the market demands, the invisible hand Mossad supplies. Verily, they giveth with one hand, and taketh away Hezbollah’s other hand. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2024, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/exploding-pagers-in-lebanon-2024-09-17/1007395/200 "2024-09-19T16:05:56Z")
I bet there’s someone in the ranks of Hezbollah’s procurement department who is sweating bullets right now. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/exploding-pagers-in-lebanon-2024-09-17/1007395.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/exploding-pagers-in-lebanon-2024-09-17/1007395.md?page=11)