# Exploding Pagers in Lebanon {2024-09-17} **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [September 17, 2024, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/exploding-pagers-in-lebanon-2024-09-17/1007395 "2024-09-17T18:27:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![EinsteinsHund](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/einsteinshund/32/8400_2.png) [@EinsteinsHund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EinsteinsHund)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2024, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/exploding-pagers-in-lebanon-2024-09-17/1007395/201 "2024-09-19T16:23:11Z")
I have a technical question that’s a bit of a sidetrack: I learned in this thread that pagers work independently from cell networks, I had always assumed they had a SIM card and worked that way. So how do the messages transmit? There must be some decentralized network, cell phones connect to cell towers, but what do pagers connect to? ---
**Author:** ![Tatterdemalion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/43a26b/32.png) [@Tatterdemalion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tatterdemalion)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2024, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/exploding-pagers-in-lebanon-2024-09-17/1007395/202 "2024-09-19T16:31:09Z")
Most pagers that aren’t 2 way pagers, don’t connect to anything. They are purely radio receivers that listen for a radio message from a dedicated radio transmitter somewhere. ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2024, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/exploding-pagers-in-lebanon-2024-09-17/1007395/203 "2024-09-19T16:32:08Z")
> [@Tatterdemalion](#): > > They are purely radio receivers that lsten for a rado message from a dedicated radio transmitter somewhere. Specifically, a different radio network than used by cell phone. Different frequencies and different communication protocols. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2024, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/exploding-pagers-in-lebanon-2024-09-17/1007395/204 "2024-09-19T16:36:50Z")
I remember reading that in the immediate aftermath of the World Trade Center attacks 23 years ago, pagers continued to work while cell phones did not, because of the different networks involved. ---
**Author:** ![N9IWP](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/n9iwp/32/3154_2.png) [@N9IWP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/N9IWP)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2024, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/exploding-pagers-in-lebanon-2024-09-17/1007395/205 "2024-09-19T16:36:57Z")
From the pager entry in Wikipedia: > In the United States, pagers typically receive signals using the [FLEX protocol](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FLEX_(protocol)) in the 900 MHz band. Commercial paging transmitters typically radiate 1000 watts of [effective power](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EIRP), resulting in a much wider coverage area per tower than a mobile phone transmitter, which typically radiates around 0.6 watts per channel No idea what is used in Lebanon. Brian ---
**Author:** ![EinsteinsHund](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/einsteinshund/32/8400_2.png) [@EinsteinsHund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EinsteinsHund)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2024, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/exploding-pagers-in-lebanon-2024-09-17/1007395/206 "2024-09-19T16:37:56Z")
> [@gnoitall](#): > > > [@Tatterdemalion](#): > > > > They are purely radio receivers that lsten for a rado message from a dedicated radio transmitter somewhere. > > Specifically, a different radio network than used by cell phone. Different frequencies and different communication protocols. So pagers work over terrestrial radio waves? How are messages authenticated, and what stations send the signals? ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2024, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/exploding-pagers-in-lebanon-2024-09-17/1007395/207 "2024-09-19T16:42:14Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Yes, because clearly a nuclear first strike is _exactly_ like tricking terrorists into buying pagers that caused them a minor injury. 🙄 The injuries weren’t minor, a least not for hundreds of people. The medical services have not only reported 3-4 dozen dead but are using words like “amputations” and phrases like “lost at least one eye”. Those aren’t “minor”, they’re crippling and maiming. Now, I am willing to agree with you that the mass attack with exploding pagers and other gear is not on part with a nuclear strike, but I very much think you’re wrong on the level of injury involved with the exploding gear. > [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > Terror attacks deliberately target non-combatants. This was exactly the opposite. We’ll never know if Hezbollah would receive the same criticism because in no universe would they behave this selectively toward combatants. That’s partly limitations on abilities - I don’t think Hezbollah has the means to engineer an attack of that sort. I troubled that this attack seems to result in maiming rather than death or injuries that can be easily recovered from. If the primary result of this form of attack is blindness (as an example, given the reported eye injuries) then it could be considered a war crime. Not that anyone in that region seems to really care about that sort of thing. It’s targeted, but it’s still terrifying because next time someone does this it might not be limited just one custom batch of an electronic item, or just to combatants. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2024, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/exploding-pagers-in-lebanon-2024-09-17/1007395/208 "2024-09-19T16:44:04Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > I troubled that this attack seems to result in maiming rather than death or injuries that can be easily recovered from. If the primary result of this form of attack is blindness (as an example, given the reported eye injuries) then it could be considered a war crime. Considering how tiny the amount of explosive that could be put inside a pager or walky-talky, it would have probably been difficult to engineer it to kill rather than merely maim. Injuries were the best the Mossad could achieve. But yes, I wouldn’t put it past the Mossad to say, “Injuries are better than death, we want more PTSD.” ---
**Author:** ![Tatterdemalion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/43a26b/32.png) [@Tatterdemalion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tatterdemalion)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2024, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/exploding-pagers-in-lebanon-2024-09-17/1007395/209 "2024-09-19T16:56:33Z")
> [@EinsteinsHund](#): > > So pagers work over terrestrial radio waves? How are messages authenticated, and what stations send the signals? Yes, standard radio waves. The messages aren’t really authenticated. The message has a header code of some sort that individual pagers will respond to. There is also a broadcast mode that all pagers will respond to. The service that is running the pagers sets up a transmitter or transmitters. It is totally seperate hardware from other services. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2024, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/exploding-pagers-in-lebanon-2024-09-17/1007395/210 "2024-09-19T16:58:15Z")
In the end, maiming is more merciful than killing, is it not? A terrorist who lost a hand or an eye may no longer be able to shoot a gun, but they can still find gainful employment in a field other than terrorism. ---
**Author:** ![beowulff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beowulff/32/542_2.png) [@beowulff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beowulff)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2024, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/exploding-pagers-in-lebanon-2024-09-17/1007395/211 "2024-09-19T17:06:48Z")
The pager service provider operates a (or several) transmitters. You log into their system and tell it to send a message. That message gets broadcast to every pager that is operated by that service provider. Your pager only gets the message sent to it because there is an ID at the beginning of the message. If you want your message to be secure, you need to encrypt it yourself. The protocol is extremely primitive - it was developed 60 years ago, and hasn’t changed very much. The company I work for still uses pager technology to talk to systems all over the country. It’s cheap and reliable. And, it has broadcast capability, so one message (Boom!?) can go to multiple devices, something that cell phones really don’t have (other than the new-ish emergency alter channels). ---
**Author:** ![snowthx](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowthx/32/10660_2.png) [@snowthx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snowthx)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2024, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/exploding-pagers-in-lebanon-2024-09-17/1007395/212 "2024-09-19T17:14:26Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > I’m dubious about anyone using pagers outside of fringe groups with special needs, like Hezbollah. I’m a little surprised you can still buy them. > **[The Lebanon explosions raise a question: Deep into the smartphone era, who is...](https://apnews.com/article/pagers-explosions-lebanon-doctors-security-israel-f35bd0f0e0a57bb5f37c139d1f32926d)** > > Electronic pagers that were popular status symbols in the 1990s are used for communication precisely because they are old school. _Then as now — albeit in far smaller numbers — pagers are used precisely because they are old school. They run on batteries and radio waves, making them impervious to dead zones without WiFi, basements without cell service, hackings and catastrophic network collapses such as those during the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks._ _Some medical professionals and emergency workers prefer pagers to cell phones or use the devices in combination. They’re handy for workers in remote locations, such as oil rigs and mines. Crowded restaurants use them, too, handing patrons blinking, hockey puck-like contraptions that vibrate when your table is ready._ _To those who distrust data collection, pagers are appealing because they have no way to track users._ ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2024, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/exploding-pagers-in-lebanon-2024-09-17/1007395/213 "2024-09-19T17:16:22Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > I also didn’t cry when the Death Star got blown up. Not even for the independent contractors, just making a living? ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2024, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/exploding-pagers-in-lebanon-2024-09-17/1007395/214 "2024-09-19T17:17:10Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > That’s partly limitations on abilities - I don’t think Hezbollah has the means to engineer an attack of that sort. And if they could, they’d put bombs in children’s toys and the like, not military equipment. Because their goal isn’t to reduce the Israeli army’s operational capacity, it is to terrorize Israel’s civilian population. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2024, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/exploding-pagers-in-lebanon-2024-09-17/1007395/215 "2024-09-19T17:20:57Z")
> [@snowthx](#): > > Crowded restaurants use them, too, handing patrons blinking, hockey puck-like contraptions that vibrate when your table is ready. I mean, i guess those use pager technology, but it’s not what i think is when i think, “pager”. And i bet it’s not what Hezbollah was using ---
**Author:** ![EinsteinsHund](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/einsteinshund/32/8400_2.png) [@EinsteinsHund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EinsteinsHund)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2024, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/exploding-pagers-in-lebanon-2024-09-17/1007395/216 "2024-09-19T17:27:16Z")
Thanks to all those who explained how those paging services work. 👍 ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2024, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/exploding-pagers-in-lebanon-2024-09-17/1007395/217 "2024-09-19T17:29:02Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > And i bet it’s not what Hezbollah was using Unless they had a super busy canteen. And even then, most of a restaurant’s supply of table pagers are usually on the charger, not in the hands of a customer. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2024, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/exploding-pagers-in-lebanon-2024-09-17/1007395/218 "2024-09-19T17:36:05Z")
To those concerned about civilians getting a hold of these pagers, here are some comforting words from _checks notes_ Nasrallah, leader of Hezbollah: > **[Nasrallah dares Israel to invade Lebanon in speech, calls it 'historic...](https://www.jpost.com/israel-news/article-820907)** > > Hezbollah leader Hassan Nasrallah called Israel's Northern Command leader "foolish" and addressed the displaced Israelis in the North. > [@](#): > > We expect the number of casualties to rise due to these radio bombings. Dozens of deaths and countless injuries have yet to be fully reported, but the toll is very high. **The enemy is aware that there are 4,000 beeper holders, all of whom are Hezbollah members, meaning they deliberately killed 4,000 in an instant.** Thanks, Nasrallah! I’m sorry to see you missed your message ☹ ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2024, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/exploding-pagers-in-lebanon-2024-09-17/1007395/219 "2024-09-19T17:46:41Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Considering how tiny the amount of explosive that could be put inside a pager or walky-talky, it would have probably been difficult to engineer it to kill rather than merely maim. It would probably also have increased deaths and injuries among bystanders. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2024, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/exploding-pagers-in-lebanon-2024-09-17/1007395/220 "2024-09-19T18:03:39Z")
> [@thorny\_locust](#): > > It would probably also have increased deaths and injuries among bystanders Pretty much the only way to ensure death with a pager or phone sized device is if you’re targeting a single individual and waiting till you know he’s making a call (so presumably you also tap the phone). Even then, you’d need a phone with no bluetooth or speaker capability (or maybe you turn them off remotely and when he picks up the phone and says “hello, can you hear me now?” - kaboom!). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/exploding-pagers-in-lebanon-2024-09-17/1007395.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/exploding-pagers-in-lebanon-2024-09-17/1007395.md?page=12)