The Action Squad is among the most interesting sites dealing with urban underground exploring. Their adventures in Minnesota are amazing.
There’s also a webring with several good sites, found on Action Squad’s homepage. Underground Ozarks is one of the best of them.
If you’re going to go urban spelunking, be sure to read the advice these guys give – it could save your life. Me, I’m happy to go along vicariously.
As others have already pointed out, many older cities have combined sanitary and storm conveyance in the same lines. New systems being put in over the last several decades have required separate systems for sanitary and storm except for those urban areas where they are not separated. I (and my company) normally refer to sanitary sewer (SS) and storm drain (SD) to distinguish between the two services.
You should always be very careful, particularly when entering any sanitary sewers, for the presence of hydrogen sulfide, methane and other gases in addition to the problem of low oxygen levels in the air. Most entries into sanitary sewers (and I believe storm drains) are considered “confined space” entries under OSHA.
There is an interesting story (legend) regarding the coal tunnels running under downtown Chicago that in the 20’s one of the gangsters was seriously injured when rivals broke into his fortress (he was using the top floor of one of the old skyscrapers though I can’t the name of the building between the Chicago River and Water Street) through the coal tunnels. Afterwards he had the tunnel closed and later on when a Contractor accidentally drilled into the coal tunnel over or adjacent to the Chicago River every other loop building flooded but this one. Perhaps someone else has the details that I lack for completing this.
If you’re thinking of the flood in April of 1992, that was a disused freight tunnel. During maintenance of bridge pilings at Kinzie St., a replacement piling was driven a couple of feet away from its original location as a bridge-tender’s house was in the way. The new piling cracked the lining of the frieght tunnel (these tunnels are now used mostly for telephone and similar cables) and eventually, it failed, flooding most of the Loop’s basements.
In classic Chicago government style, there was a significant lag between the original report of a damp spot on the tunnel wall and any action being taken as management and oversight of the tunnels was being changed from one department to another.
You’re 95% right. Just replace “most” with “all” when thinking of sewers (and one may as well assume storm drains too). From my OSHA handbook (see, that silly training course was worth something after all):
OSHA Subpart C, 1926.21 (b)(6)(ii):
Is the story concerning the gangster true about the one and only building that didn’t flood?
I should have been more specific and stated that entry into shallow (with invert elevations of less than than 5 feet) manholes on sanitary sewers do not require confined space entry; however, any other entry does require it.
IT BEARS REPEATING THAT ENTRY INTO SEWERS IS A DANGEROUS UNDERTAKING!!! (EVEN IF YOU KNOW WHAT YOU ARE DOING)
I’m sorry, I wasn’t trying to nitpick. It’s just interesting talking about details of engineering/construction topics like this.
I went walking around downtown tonight and peeked under a storm drain lid. It was too dark to see the size of the pipes, but I saw leaves and debris no more than 2 feet under where the lid goes, so that was disappointing. I know I’ve seen larger drains than that in front of large businesses with pipes around 24" wide. Where do the largest drainages tend to be? Are they usually along major highways or downtown or what? I might have to look around while there’s some daylight.
I’m the one who should be apologizing. I wasn’t contradicting or diminishing what you were trying to say but merely trying to reinforce what you were so correctly trying to emphasize.
And yes the engineering and construction aspects of all of this is unfortunately so lost on most of the people that they tend to trivialize the whole concept of conveyance of sewage and drainage.
The largest, in may cases, are the ones either closest to the waste water treatment plant (WWTP) that act as interceptors for large areas or the ones out in the boondocks that collect drainage from huge non-urban areas and must convey it to a convenient discharge point. Gravity lines are almost always larger in diameter than force mains (pumped drainage or sewage), which are under pressure and should not be fooled around with no matter what the size.
Happy hunting - and don’t forget the deodorant when you decide to return!
That’s not the case everywhere. At CalTech (at least, the last time I checked), moving through the steam tunnels was, if not condoned, at least not condemned. Many students spent a lot of time wandering the tunnels, and they even take prefrosh down there during college visits.
You are partially correct here in your response. The tunnels (supported by several hundred Google websites) were in fact originally coal tunnels that were later converted to freight tunnels when the accident you describe happened in the early 90’s. They were used for transporting coal, which was the primary source for heating many of these buildings, throughout the Loop and downtown area from the early part of the 20th Century up until prabably the 60’s or so…
And several years after making this thread, I have moved to Dallas and explored some of the storm drain tunnels here. There are several that you can walk upright in. The tallest I’d seen was probably between 15 and 20 feet tall. They also have a variety of shapes and compositions. I’ll note that these were all storm drains. I have no intentions of going into any sanitary sewers since they’re undoubtedly disgusting and could have poisonous gasses in them.
I rarely repost to old threads but I just wanted to make an addendum to this one and maybe answer questions that anyone might have.
Houston and its suburbs definitely have explorable storm drains, they can be accessed through manholes or by swinging into the outlet pipes over “bayous”(really large drainage ditches). I used to go exploring in there as a kid, you could sometimes see and hear people above you through drains and manholes. Sometimes you’d follow a branch but the pipe eventually got too small to continue.
And in true turning into your parents fashion I would be horrified by the thought of my son exploring one of those unarmed with no flashlight in six short years! :o God what have I become…
When I worked for BellSouth I had to go into storm drains that doubled as communication cable pipes. It was somewhat amazing as you would open the manhole and climb down and find yourself in a “room” roughly 10’x10. We would have massive cables running underground and could service them at these locations.
I would strongly caution anyone to not go down and explore these types of locations. Before we entered any kind of location like these we would first send down a very large duct to blow fresh air into the area. I was warned that “gases” would accumulate in these areas and could kill a man dead before he would even realize anything was wrong. Couldn’t see or smell the danger. Be very cautious before you go exploring.
Nah, my albino gator (Snowy) is guarding my crop of White Manhattan Weed.
I have nothing to worry about except the feds.
j/k
zombie or not look out for the C.H.U.D. and other dangers.
Yeah, the older part of the University of Minnesota Minneapolis campus has tunnels containing steam pipes supplying heat to buildings. At least back in the 1970’s, they were semi-officially open for use in traveling between buildings – very handy during Minnesota winters!
Newer buildings – like the West Bank campus – have actual public tunnels (and some skyways) connecting buildings.
Minneapolis & St. Paul geology is quite suitable for tunnels, and there are a lot, both natural and man-made. There are whole groups devoted to exploring them, and even books written about it.
Clearly, in old cities like this, the sanitary sewers and storm drain systems are NOT distinctly separate. The city is trying to separate them, but that’s expensive, and usually done as part of a street repair project. And many of the older connections were ‘unofficial’ and are un-documented. One sign of inter-connection is being in what is supposed to be a storm drain-only tunnel but seeing the floor littered with toilet paper!
They can be big; in the ones under the Ford plant in St. Paul, Ford built a railway to haul parts around and haul sand for use in making window glass. And some of those just across the river, under the MSP airport, are said to be big enough to be hangers.
But they are definitely dangerous to enter, for people who aren’t experts (and even for those who are). Teenagers often explore them, or hangout in them for parties or making out. Periodically, there are stories of kids killed in the tunnels from suffocation for lack of oxygen. Same for experienced tunnel explorers, just less often.
Not too long ago, a couple of construction workers were killed under downtown St. Paul. They were working on repairs to a storm drain system, when a sudden rainstorm came up aboveground. Before they could be reached and warned, the influx of rainwater flooded the system and drowned them.
If you know of any cases where someone suffocated in a tunnel that was for storm water only, I’d like to read it. At most, a candle should alleviate any such danger.
As for the rain, it’s always a good idea to check the weather forecast ahead of time. I wouldn’t go in if there’s any chance of rain, or even if they didn’t predict it but the clouds look a bit gray, or if it had rained in the last couple of days.