# Explosions at Boston Marathon **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [April 15, 2013, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explosions-at-boston-marathon/655781 "2013-04-15T19:16:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 65
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2013, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explosions-at-boston-marathon/655781/1281 "2013-04-22T16:02:34Z")
From my Crim Pro classes, I recall that the “Public Safety Exception” to Miranda has to have an element of urgency and immediacy. “Where is the girl?!” “Where are the bombs?!” “Tell me now!!!” Since days have passed, the argument against that exception is much stronger. I don’t think that for weeks and months the cops can say, “Well, gee, there might be other bombs out there, so we will use the exception.” But the only thing they need is one federal charge to stick to get the death penalty. Killing the cop is probably only a state charge; same with killing his brother. I think a Civil Rights violation resulting in death just might stick; he killed those people because they weren’t radical jihadists like him… It would be an interesting legal battle if he fought federal jurisdiction using the interstate commerce clause. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2013, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explosions-at-boston-marathon/655781/1282 "2013-04-22T16:28:05Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > I think a Civil Rights violation resulting in death just might stick; he killed those people because they weren’t radical jihadists like him… The basis for the death penalty is going to be federal terrorism charges. > [@](#): > > It would be an interesting legal battle if he fought federal jurisdiction using the interstate commerce clause. Wha?? ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2013, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explosions-at-boston-marathon/655781/1283 "2013-04-22T17:08:45Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > The basis for the death penalty is going to be federal terrorism charges. > > Wha?? Well, there is some basis. Lopez held that the mere possession of a gun in a school zone did not involve interstate commerce. Morrison held that domestic violence against women did not involve interstate commerce, and Roberts (although upholding the law under the taxing power) held that the ACA violated the interstate commerce clause. I can see a legitimate argument that a heinous act committed entirely in one state, not against any federal official or property, is not a power under the ICC that the federal government has to punish general crimes. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2013, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explosions-at-boston-marathon/655781/1284 "2013-04-22T17:13:56Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Wha?? Transporting pressure cookers across a state line. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2013, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explosions-at-boston-marathon/655781/1285 "2013-04-22T17:15:41Z")
**Marley** , Congress doesn’t have a general criminal law power. To create offences, it has to rely on the “necessary and proper” clause, plus one of the other areas of federal jurisdiction under Article I. The great expansion of the commerce clause has resulted in a corresponding expansion of Congress’ criminal law power. So a successful challenge to the broad view of the commerce clause could reduce the scope of the federal criminal law power. There’s a thread in GQ about it: [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=16211117#post16211117](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=16211117#post16211117) ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2013, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explosions-at-boston-marathon/655781/1286 "2013-04-22T17:25:11Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > I can see a legitimate argument that a heinous act committed entirely in one state, not against any federal official or property, is not a power under the ICC that the federal government has to punish general crimes. I still don’t see what interstate commerce has to do with it. Terrorism is a federal crime. Reports on the subject say he’s likely to be charged with crimes including bombing a public place and using a weapon of mass destruction. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2013, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explosions-at-boston-marathon/655781/1287 "2013-04-22T17:37:09Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Terrorism is a federal crime. Sure, Congress has enacted a federal terrorism statute. But where does Congress get the power to enact it? There’s nothing in Article I that expressly gives Congress a criminal law power. So where does Congress get the authority to make terrorism a federal crime? Incidental effect on inter-state commerce appears to be the answer for the constitutionality of a lot of federal offenses. But, as **jtgain** has pointed out, in the _Lopez_ case, SCOTUS struck down a federal criminal offence of possessing a handgun near a school, because there was no connection to inter-state commerce. That analysis means that for a federal offence of terrorism to apply, the prosecutor will have to link it to inter-state commerce in someway, to bring it within federal jurisdiction. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2013, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explosions-at-boston-marathon/655781/1288 "2013-04-22T17:48:20Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > From my Crim Pro classes, I recall that the “Public Safety Exception” to Miranda has to have an element of urgency and immediacy. “Where is the girl?!” “Where are the bombs?!” “Tell me now!!!” > > Since days have passed, the argument against that exception is much stronger. I don’t think that for weeks and months the cops can say, “Well, gee, there might be other bombs out there, so we will use the exception.” It doesn’t matter if they NEVER read him the Miranda statement. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2013, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explosions-at-boston-marathon/655781/1289 "2013-04-22T18:19:01Z")
Looks like he’s being charged with: 18 USC § 2332a - Use of weapons of mass destruction 18 USC § 844 - Malicious Destruction of Property Resulting in death Both are capital crimes, although it doesn’t speak as to whether they’d seek the death penalty. Criminal Complaint [here](http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324235304578438930168800650.html). ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2013, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explosions-at-boston-marathon/655781/1290 "2013-04-22T18:19:45Z")
Thats a relief. Up thread it was discussed that other countries have used their standard legal system to prosecute terror bombers. Making an American citizen an enemy combatant is a bad precedent to establish. I really would prefer Mass charge him with state crimes (Murder, the bombings etc.). But the Feds always want to horn in. [http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/04/22/white-house-says-boston-bombing-suspect-will-not-be-treated-as-enemy-combatant/](http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/04/22/white-house-says-boston-bombing-suspect-will-not-be-treated-as-enemy-combatant/) > [@](#): > > The White House said Monday that the surviving suspect in the Boston Marathon bombing will not be treated as an enemy combatant, in response to calls from Republican lawmakers to consider that option. > > The announcement came as a federal complaint was filed against suspect Dzhokhar Tsarnaev. Fox News has learned that the suspect made an initial appearance in front of a federal magistrate judge at the hospital where he is still being treated. No plea was entered. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2013, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explosions-at-boston-marathon/655781/1291 "2013-04-22T18:24:01Z")
As for the interstate commerce argument, it’s addressed in the criminal complaint: > [@](#): > > …I submit this affidavit in support of an application for a complaint charging DZHOKHAR TSARNAEV with (1) unlawfully using and conspiring to use a weapon of mass destruction (namely, an improvised explosive device) against persons and property within the United States used in interstate and foreign commerce and in an activity that affects interstate and foreign commerce, which offense and its results affected interstate and foreign commerce (including, but not limited to, the Boston Marathon, private businesses in Eastern Massachusetts, and the City of Boston itself), resulting in death, in violation of 18 U.S.C. § 2332a; and (2) maliciously damaging and destroying, by means of an explosive, real and personal property used in interstate and foreign commerce and in an activity affecting interstate and foreign commerce, resulting in personal injury and death, in violation of 18 U.S.C. $ 844(i). ---
**Author:** ![Diceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Diceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diceman)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2013, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explosions-at-boston-marathon/655781/1292 "2013-04-22T18:43:13Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Making an American citizen an enemy combatant is a bad precedent to establish. I really would prefer Mass charge him with state crimes (Murder, the bombings etc.). But the Feds always want to horn in. Damn straight it’s a bad precedent to establish. Letting the government deny suspects their civil rights simply because they’re too eeeeeeevil to deserve them starts us down a slippery slope that ends with the country having a Gestapo who can lock you up forever (or make you disappear forever) simply because someone in power doesn’t like you. ---
**Author:** ![tim314](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim314/32/3468_2.png) [@tim314](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tim314)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2013, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explosions-at-boston-marathon/655781/1293 "2013-04-22T20:08:50Z")
_Are_ his civil rights being violated? If I understand correctly, the government never has an obligation to read you the Miranda warning, but if they forgo it, they run the risk that his testimony won’t be admissible in court. But I suppose that’s their risk to take. If he’s asking for a lawyer and they aren’t giving him one, I guess that’s different. But failing to remind him that he’s entitled to a lawyer is not the same as refusing him one. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2013, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explosions-at-boston-marathon/655781/1294 "2013-04-22T20:55:32Z")
This has to be the stupidist story I’ve seen on this tragedy. They’re worried about a gun license? Blow up almost 200 people and they are actually checking a gun license? Hey guys did they have a pressure cooker bomb license either? I guess this news story is getting a bit stale if journalists are printing this. [http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/04/21/us-usa-explosions-boston-guns-idUSBRE93K0HB20130421](http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/04/21/us-usa-explosions-boston-guns-idUSBRE93K0HB20130421) > [@](#): > > The two brothers suspected in the Boston Marathon bombings, who police say engaged in a gun battle with officers early Friday after a frenzied manhunt, were not licensed to own guns in the towns where they lived, authorities said on Sunday. > > In the confrontation with police on the streets of a Boston suburb, Tamerlan and Dzhokhar Tsarnaev were armed with handguns, at least one rifle and several explosive devices, authorities say. > > But neither brother appears to have been legally entitled to own or carry firearms where they lived, a fact that may add to the national debate over current gun laws. ---
**Author:** ![Baal\_Houtham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baal_houtham/32/13604_2.png) [@Baal\_Houtham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baal_Houtham)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2013, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explosions-at-boston-marathon/655781/1295 "2013-04-22T21:15:54Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > This has to be the stupidist story I’ve seen on this tragedy. > > They’re worried about a gun license? It just seems like a little follow-up story, not particularly stupid. I doubt it’s going to be even mildly important in prosecuting them, but it’s a info point about the attack and a data point in the public debates about acquisition and registration of guns. How did they acquire the guns? I’ve got some curiosity about that. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2013, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explosions-at-boston-marathon/655781/1296 "2013-04-22T21:21:07Z")
Yeah, I don’t think their motivation is busting Dzhokhar for a gun violation. Most likely the older brother bought the guns as it is a lot less complicated than buying a gun at 19. As a legal resident in many states Tamerlan could have legally bought the guns in various ways that wouldn’t be tracked. Or he bought them off someone in Massachusetts who had them. But on the off chance somehow they had a person helping them with this in anyway I think the authorities would be very interested in knowing who. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2013, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explosions-at-boston-marathon/655781/1297 "2013-04-23T01:06:34Z")
Well, the Miranda issue is now moot; Fox is reporting that he was read his rights at his hospital arraignment today, and replied “no” when asked if he could afford a lawyer. [‘You can rouse him now’: The extraordinary scene of Boston Marathon bomber’s bedside arraignment, as he’s read his Miranda Rights and only says ‘no’ when asked if he can afford an attorney](http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2313216/Dzhokhar-Tsarnaev-Boston-Marathon-bomb-suspect-read-Miranda-Rights-hospital-bed.html#ixzz2RFCjnwli) ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2013, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explosions-at-boston-marathon/655781/1298 "2013-04-23T01:27:58Z")
Can any legal pros comment on how careful the cops have to be questioning a medicated suspect? I vaguely recall this being an issue before. Isn’t there some level of sobriety (for lack of a better word) that’s required? I don’t object to his being questioned. But wouldn’t want to see his statements thrown out because his defense argues that he’s medicated and mentally impaired. Some Sodium panthenol in his IV would be quite useful. 😉 But the defense would shred the case if that was done. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2013, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explosions-at-boston-marathon/655781/1299 "2013-04-23T02:19:43Z")
I don’t meant to steer us off course, but what happened with that Glen Beck reveal that was supposed to happen today? I guess he gave Obama until today to reveal the truth and since I’m assuming Obama ignored him, what did Glenn Beck “reveal”? ---
**Author:** ![Buttercup\_Smith](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buttercup_smith/32/473_2.png) [@Buttercup\_Smith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buttercup_Smith)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2013, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explosions-at-boston-marathon/655781/1300 "2013-04-23T02:45:45Z")
I wondered the same thing and asked a face book friend and this is her response. I guess he thinks there was somekind of cover up. I saw some other reports saying he’s bin Laden’s son. I don’t believe that. He was evidently on a terror watch list before, that doesn’t surprise me & the US does have somewhat of a tight relationship with the Saudi’s, It’s just questionable because of any Saudi terrorism links, bin Laden was a Saudi etc. I personally don’t believe there was any cover up. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explosions-at-boston-marathon/655781.md?page=64) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explosions-at-boston-marathon/655781.md?page=66)