# Explosions at Manchester Arena (England) **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [May 22, 2017, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explosions-at-manchester-arena-england/787243 "2017-05-22T23:17:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2017, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explosions-at-manchester-arena-england/787243/101 "2017-05-23T13:03:44Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > There are millions of people that are “disaffected” ([discontented and resentful especially against authority](https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/disaffected)). Almost none of them find any appeal in terrorism, particularly suicide bombing. If that were the case we would have run out of suicide bombers already. ---
**Author:** ![Okrahoma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90db22/32.png) [@Okrahoma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Okrahoma)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2017, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explosions-at-manchester-arena-england/787243/102 "2017-05-23T13:05:13Z")
> [@N9IWP](#): > > Greatest sympathies to those injured and loved ones of the ones who died, but Ariana Grande can’t be feeling too good either. Is she somehow blaming herself? (I don’t know, but it is possible) I know that’s my biggest concern. How Ariana Grande is feeling. ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2017, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explosions-at-manchester-arena-england/787243/103 "2017-05-23T13:13:03Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > I know that’s my biggest concern. How Ariana Grande is feeling. She’s a victim of this too, dude. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2017, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explosions-at-manchester-arena-england/787243/104 "2017-05-23T13:26:29Z")
> [@Baron\_Greenback](#): > > She’s a victim of this too, dude. I agree. Obviously there is a gulf of difference between Grande’s distress and families who must now arrange to bury their child, but it’s also fair to say that the singer, a young woman herself, is probably devastated that her concert was the venue for this kind of horrid mass murder. And it’s not like we have a vat with only a limited amount of sympathy, so that we cannot waste any on Grande lest we run dry in the future. Grande deserves sympathy, and saying so doesn’t lessen the horror and empathy we feel for others who have suffered more tangibly. ---
**Author:** ![Gray\_Ghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c0e974/32.png) [@Gray\_Ghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gray_Ghost)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2017, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explosions-at-manchester-arena-england/787243/105 "2017-05-23T13:48:47Z")
[According to CBS News](http://www.cbsnews.com/news/manchester-terror-attack-ariana-grande-suicide-bomber-children-theresa-may/?ftag=CNM-00-10aab6a&linkId=37907182), shitbag bomber has been identified as Salman Abedi, 23, and “known to British Authorities.” I haven’t seen whether he was a British subject, a refugee, or someone visiting the U.K. Authorities are still trying to determine if he was working by himself or whether he had help. ---
**Author:** ![Delicious](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@Delicious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Delicious)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2017, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explosions-at-manchester-arena-england/787243/106 "2017-05-23T14:06:22Z")
> [@Baron\_Greenback](#): > > False alarm, I think. I guess everyone is pretty jumpy. > [@TwoCarrotSnowman](#): > > You posted that nearly an hour ago, and there’s nothing being reported on the BBC, so I assume that was rumour doing the rounds. > > Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk Yup, false alarm…that’s good. Seems that armed police arrested someone in the Arndale centre but it’s unrelated to the bombing. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2017, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explosions-at-manchester-arena-england/787243/107 "2017-05-23T14:10:04Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > purported [photo of aftermath here](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DAdoCiiXoAAPaba.jpg), viewer discretion advised > [@Fiendish\_Astronaut](#): > > That is a picture from a police exercise a few years ago. It is not the MEN Arena. > [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Thanks for the correction. That’s an amazingly-realistic police exercise with debris scattered around the ground. Or maybe it’s just a dirty place? Just to revisit this, if it actually is a police exercise from years ago, it’s a HELL of a coincidence. Take a look at these pictures: [City Room entrance / exit](http://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/53154/IMG-1575-214612.JPG) [Access to Arena](http://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/53154/IMG-1574-214611.JPG) [Floorplan of Arena, showing exits](http://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/53154/IMG-1578-214614.JPG) [Location of blast](http://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/53154/IMG-1577-214613.JPG) I’m fairly convinced this actually is a picture of the aftermath of last night’s blast. ETA: and [here is another (WARNING: GRAPHIC) picture](http://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/367483/IMG-1424-214639.jpg) from inside the doors ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2017, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explosions-at-manchester-arena-england/787243/108 "2017-05-23T14:10:29Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > Gun powder surrounded by nails,ball bearings, glass or other objects is plenty strong enough to cause fatal injuries in persons unlucky enough to be in the vicinity. A bit more complicated than that. As a low explosive it combusts at a (relatively) slow rate so when ignited it burns rather than explodes. Low explosives require a strong container to hold in the reaction until enough pressure is built up for and explosion. That’s why pipe bombs exist. ---
**Author:** ![Gray\_Ghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c0e974/32.png) [@Gray\_Ghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gray_Ghost)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2017, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explosions-at-manchester-arena-england/787243/109 "2017-05-23T14:17:10Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Just to revisit this, if it actually is a police exercise from years ago, it’s a HELL of a coincidence. Take a look at these pictures: > > [City Room entrance / exit](http://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/53154/IMG-1575-214612.JPG) > > [Access to Arena](http://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/53154/IMG-1574-214611.JPG) > > [Floorplan of Arena, showing exits](http://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/53154/IMG-1578-214614.JPG) > > [Location of blast](http://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/53154/IMG-1577-214613.JPG) > > I’m fairly convinced this actually is a picture of the aftermath of last night’s blast. If it’s the one making the rounds, don’t the victims in it look to be mostly middle aged, somewhat tubby white males? IOW, the sort of people you’d expect to be voluntold to go take part in some DHS/U.K. equivalent all-day mass casualty exercise. (Especially if it’s catered?) And not the pre-teen to teenage girls you’d expect leaving an Ariana Grande concert? If an exercise, they certainly did a great job though on setting the scene with trash and debris. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2017, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explosions-at-manchester-arena-england/787243/110 "2017-05-23T14:38:59Z")
> [@Gray\_Ghost](#): > > If it’s the one making the rounds, don’t the victims in it look to be mostly middle aged, somewhat tubby white males? IOW, the sort of people you’d expect to be voluntold to go take part in some DHS/U.K. equivalent all-day mass casualty exercise. (Especially if it’s catered?) And not the pre-teen to teenage girls you’d expect leaving an Ariana Grande concert? > > If an exercise, they certainly did a great job though on setting the scene with trash and debris. The original contention was the picture was not at the Manchester Arena at all, but that appears to be incorrect. Whether it was a police exercise or aftermath of the blast appears to still be in question, although I’m leaning heavily towards the latter. [Here is another picture of the same area](https://twitter.com/hannawwh/status/866696483369877504) ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2017, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explosions-at-manchester-arena-england/787243/111 "2017-05-23T14:58:47Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Just to revisit this, if it actually is a police exercise from years ago, it’s a HELL of a coincidence. Take a look at these pictures: Why is it a coincidence at all - you don’t think these people know what they’re doing? Fwiw, the photo totally looks like an exercise. I think you need to get out more. ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2017, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explosions-at-manchester-arena-england/787243/112 "2017-05-23T15:03:48Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Any thoughts on why they shut down the trains? > > A huge crowd at an arena needs to get safely home. Shutting down mass transit seems counterintuitive. Otherwise you’ve got huge numbers of new people driving into the city to pick these survivors up. More people, more chaos and maybe an opportunity for another bomber. It’s not counterintuitive - are you some kind of expert? It’s exactly the same policy as 7/7, the suicide bombers on London’s public transport. What you do is avoid collecting people together in tight group- - like on public transport. Instead you disperse the public because you don’t know how many attackers there are and whether the tactics will change - say to a roaming gun attack involving several attackers. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2017, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explosions-at-manchester-arena-england/787243/113 "2017-05-23T15:07:40Z")
> [@up\_the\_junction](#): > > Why is it a coincidence at all - you don’t think these people know what they’re doing? > > Fwiw, the photo totally looks like an exercise. > I think you need to get out more. Well, as I said earlier, the original claim included “It is not the MEN Arena.” This appears to be false / incorrect, at least on all but the most technical grounds. The photo appears to show [the City Room entrance to the Manchester Arena](http://www.manchester-arena.com/accessibility/arriving-at-the-venue/). At least that part of **Fiendish Astronaut** ’s claim appears to be incorrect. That leads me to question his other claim “That is a picture from a police exercise a few years ago” as well. He or you could disabuse me of my skepticism rather easily if you could post a link to a report of the alleged police exercise, perhaps one that included one or more photo. I’ve participated in a handful of disaster simulations / exercises, and never seen one with a big wide blood streak across the floor like that, or debris scattered all over, but perhaps the Brits do a better job of simulating than we do here. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2017, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explosions-at-manchester-arena-england/787243/114 "2017-05-23T15:28:14Z")
And it appears that the casualty figures have been updated to 22 dead. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2017, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explosions-at-manchester-arena-england/787243/115 "2017-05-23T15:41:00Z")
nevermind ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2017, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explosions-at-manchester-arena-england/787243/116 "2017-05-23T15:48:01Z")
Fwiw, neither Google Image Search nor Tineye can find either of Ditka’s photos online timestamped prior to last night’s explosion. So yay for him, he’s likely won his little argument, and can now be confident that he has genuine gore pictures of dead kids and their parents. Huzzah! ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2017, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explosions-at-manchester-arena-england/787243/117 "2017-05-23T16:08:29Z")
> [@Baron\_Greenback](#): > > … Huzzah! I apologize if you felt that I treated the victims without appropriate deference. I was trying to post factual information (with appropriate warnings that the material might be upsetting) about an unfolding event. Several people questioned it. I did some more digging and shared what I found. I’m certainly not trying to “wave the bloody shirt” or score rhetorical / political points, just trying to clarify what I understand the facts to be. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2017, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explosions-at-manchester-arena-england/787243/118 "2017-05-23T16:29:04Z")
> [@Gray\_Ghost](#): > > [According to CBS News](http://www.cbsnews.com/news/manchester-terror-attack-ariana-grande-suicide-bomber-children-theresa-may/?ftag=CNM-00-10aab6a&linkId=37907182), shitbag bomber has been identified as Salman Abedi, 23, and “known to British Authorities.” I haven’t seen whether he was a British subject, a refugee, or someone visiting the U.K. Authorities are still trying to determine if he was working by himself or whether he had help. [Everything we know about Manchester suicide bomber Salman Abedi](http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/05/23/salman-abedi-named-manchester-suicide-bomber-know) says he was the son of Libyan refugees. I’m not sure about the U.K.'s naturalization laws. If someone is born in Manchester to Libyan refugees, does he become a British subject automatically, similar to how American citizenship is given at birth? It’s odd to me that so much information coming out is “according to US officials.” Do the Brits routinely withhold information in situations like this? Are they just more cautious in vetting and verifying it before releasing information? ---
**Author:** ![Okrahoma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90db22/32.png) [@Okrahoma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Okrahoma)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2017, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explosions-at-manchester-arena-england/787243/119 "2017-05-23T16:52:39Z")
According to [this](http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4534224/Security-agents-know-Ariana-Grande-concert-bomber-s-name.html) the following twitter [message](http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2017/05/23/13/40AE6C3200000578-4532890-A_Twitter_account_which_was_unverified_posted_this_hours_before_-a-54_1495541745609.jpg)was posted 4 hours before the suicide bombing: “#ISLAMICSTATE #manchesterarena #UK #British ARE YOU FORGET OUR THREAT? THIS IS THE JUST TERROR” If this is true, it was not a “lone wolf”. Which is also supported by the fact that the bomb was a “sophisticated” one. Bombmakers who can make “sophisticated” bombs usually do not go out as suicide bombers. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2017, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explosions-at-manchester-arena-england/787243/120 "2017-05-23T16:56:42Z")
> [@Baron\_Greenback](#): > > So yay for him, he’s likely won his little argument, and can now be confident that he has genuine gore pictures of dead kids and their parents. Huzzah! I don’t get the sense he was gloating/seeking horror. :rolleyes: [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explosions-at-manchester-arena-england/787243.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explosions-at-manchester-arena-england/787243.md?page=7)