# Explosions at Manchester Arena (England) **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [May 22, 2017, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explosions-at-manchester-arena-england/787243 "2017-05-22T23:17:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2017, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explosions-at-manchester-arena-england/787243/161 "2017-05-24T02:23:34Z")
That was rhetorical btw. There’s no logic or reasoning behind this attack on defenseless children. ---
**Author:** ![Enola\_Gay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3ab097/32.png) [@Enola\_Gay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enola_Gay)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2017, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explosions-at-manchester-arena-england/787243/162 "2017-05-24T02:38:12Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > Iranians havent been terrorists. They might take over an embassy but they arent homicide/suicide bombers. Right. I put it in quotes because that’s what other people were saying. Today they would say ISIS, but back in 1995 people were less educated and Iraq and Iran were in the news a lot. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2017, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explosions-at-manchester-arena-england/787243/163 "2017-05-24T03:12:01Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > The irony here is Libya was one of the West’s better efforts. The Libyan militias did most of the heavy fighting. The West provided supplies & air power. IIRC no significant Western troops were deployed in Libya. > > Libya’s new government is finding their own way now. The West isn’t interfering AFAIK. Not exactly. It’s a situation sort of like Syria, where ISIS has taken and was holding some territory and it’s a shit-sandwich of a multi-faction civil war with occasional bombing from Western nations. [Here is a current article](https://www.criticalthreats.org/analysis/ignoring-history-americas-losing-strategy-in-libya) about Libya, with one of those “control maps” (that you’re probably more used to seeing of Syria). You might recall that [one of Obama’s last acts as President was to bomb ISIS training camps in Libya](https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/19/us/politics/united-states-bombs-isis-camps-in-libya.html). Prior to that: > [@](#): > > After conducting 495 strikes against truck bombs, heavy guns, tanks and command bunkers in the city, the Pentagon’s Africa Command announced an end to air operations on Dec. 19. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2017, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explosions-at-manchester-arena-england/787243/164 "2017-05-24T04:45:13Z")
This really is tragic. > [@Velocity](#): > > We shouldn’t act as if Muslims that we encounter in everyday life are terrorists, since it’s 99.9% likely that they aren’t, but we should not pretend that Islam is no different in conduct/actions than Buddhism, **Shintoism** , Hinduism, Taoism, etc. either. My emphasis. It needs to be pointed out that Shinto is not really a religion in any meaningful sense, but instead a rather undefined tradition which was hijacked by the Japanese militants prior to and through WWII. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2017, 5:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explosions-at-manchester-arena-england/787243/165 "2017-05-24T05:53:00Z")
> [@TokyoBayer](#): > > It needs to be pointed out that Shinto is not really a religion in any meaningful sense, but instead a rather undefined tradition which was hijacked by the Japanese militants prior to and through WWII. I don’t see why that can’t be a religion. All religious were “made up” at some point in the past. ---
**Author:** ![Isamu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/7c8e57/32.png) [@Isamu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isamu)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2017, 6:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explosions-at-manchester-arena-england/787243/166 "2017-05-24T06:05:43Z")
I think he means that it’s not a religion in the sense that there are no teachings that you would find in “typical” religions. Also there is no real “membership” to Shinto and anyone can participate with or without “belief”. Just a set of rituals, although there are priests. So it depends on how you define religion. I side with TokyoBayer in that I don’t see Shinto as a religion per se. ---
**Author:** ![blueslipper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b5a626/32.png) [@blueslipper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blueslipper)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2017, 6:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explosions-at-manchester-arena-england/787243/167 "2017-05-24T06:54:54Z")
I read that it was a ‘homemade’ bomb. But isn’t that a huge amount of stuff he would need - must have been a huge explosion ? ---
**Author:** ![Fiendish\_Astronaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiendish_astronaut/32/3295_2.png) [@Fiendish\_Astronaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiendish_Astronaut)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2017, 7:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explosions-at-manchester-arena-england/787243/168 "2017-05-24T07:22:27Z")
British Home Secretary on the radio right now and was just asked about how news seems to be coming out of the US before the UK. She said it was “irritating” and that they’ve contacted the US to ask them to stop. “It won’t happen again.” ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2017, 7:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explosions-at-manchester-arena-england/787243/169 "2017-05-24T07:33:55Z")
I just don’t get the mindset of this suicide bomber. So far, I have heard of no note, no manifesto, no explanation at all. What was he trying to accomplish? What cause was he seeking to advance? And how does the murder of random strangers accomplish whatever twisted goal he had in mind? ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2017, 8:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explosions-at-manchester-arena-england/787243/170 "2017-05-24T08:04:41Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > I just don’t get the mindset of this suicide bomber. So far, I have heard of no note, no manifesto, no explanation at all. What was he trying to accomplish? What cause was he seeking to advance? And how does the murder of random strangers accomplish whatever twisted goal he had in mind? An interview with a suicide bomber [who was captured which shows their mindse](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UVgHnUk0J0k)t. TL;DR version or at least TL;DS i) An grievance on political issues; perhaps even a justified grievance (I don’t think this particular bomber was justified but he feels that way). 1. Getting in with crowd of like minded persons. 2. Seeing that people around are indifferent to your said grievance, makes them complicit 3. Having the propensity to be bat shit insane. 4. Weak minded, follow orders easily … Multiple other steps 5. Kaboom! ---
**Author:** ![Delicious](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@Delicious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Delicious)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2017, 10:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explosions-at-manchester-arena-england/787243/171 "2017-05-24T10:13:57Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > I just don’t get the mindset of this suicide bomber. So far, I have heard of no note, no manifesto, no explanation at all. What was he trying to accomplish? What cause was he seeking to advance? And how does the murder of random strangers accomplish whatever twisted goal he had in mind? If it was ISIS related then they have published their manifesto in an English language magazine (I forget the name), they intend to fight the Armies of Rome (America/The West) at some town in Syria, get mostly killed then Mohammed will turn up, kill all the infidels and usher in a global caliphate…if their intent is to provoke an angry response then attacking children makes sense, I’ve been expecting Primary schools/nurseries to be a target for years (I guess there are some things even crazy terrorists won’t stoop to) On a mildly positive note, one of the local hospitals was running low on blood so my employer arranged to bus some of us over, when they called to confirm it turned out the hospital had received so many donations that they couldn’t store anymore. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2017, 10:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explosions-at-manchester-arena-england/787243/172 "2017-05-24T10:59:52Z")
> [@Isamu](#): > > I think he means that it’s not a religion in the sense that there are no teachings that you would find in “typical” religions. Also there is no real “membership” to Shinto and anyone can participate with or without “belief”. Just a set of rituals, although there are priests. So it depends on how you define religion. I side with TokyoBayer in that I don’t see Shinto as a religion per se. This. I don’t recall any specific actions taken in the name of Shintoism. Anyway, this is a topic better served in another thread. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2017, 11:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explosions-at-manchester-arena-england/787243/173 "2017-05-24T11:26:46Z")
> [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > So? This is the process. Just because it looks like it was an Islamic terrorist attack doesn’t justify assuming it was, or assuming any future incidents are. It’s unclear to me what the moderator guidance is now concerning this subject in this thread, given the more recent news developments. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2017, 12:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explosions-at-manchester-arena-england/787243/174 "2017-05-24T12:08:23Z")
Your question is vague and I’m not sure how it relates to the quoted post. However, I suggest you review post #56 for guidance. If you have additional questions ask them, but try to be more specific. > [@Bricker](#): > > It’s unclear to me what the moderator guidance is now concerning this subject in this thread, given the more recent news developments. ---
**Author:** ![Enola\_Gay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3ab097/32.png) [@Enola\_Gay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enola_Gay)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2017, 12:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explosions-at-manchester-arena-england/787243/175 "2017-05-24T12:34:44Z")
> [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > Your question is vague and I’m not sure how it relates to the quoted post. However, I suggest you review post #56 for guidance. If you have additional questions ask them, but try to be more specific. Too lazy to go back and read post 56, but my sense of ITD’s guidance was to not prejudge until the facts come out & not insult an entire religion. I thought it was reasonable to keep the thread on track. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2017, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explosions-at-manchester-arena-england/787243/176 "2017-05-24T13:07:44Z")
> [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > Your question is vague and I’m not sure how it relates to the quoted post. However, I suggest you review post #56 for guidance. If you have additional questions ask them, but try to be more specific. My question appears [here in ATMB](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=826953) in an effort to avoid a hijack of this thread with a discussion about the rules for this thread. Way too meta for me. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2017, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explosions-at-manchester-arena-england/787243/177 "2017-05-24T13:18:55Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > My question appears [here in ATMB](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=826953) in an effort to avoid a hijack of this thread with a discussion about the rules for this thread. Way too meta for me. Great- thanks for that. I responded over there. Short answer- sure, once facts emerge discuss them all you want. But until then, keep sweeping assumptions and especially religious jabs out of this thread. Stick to the situation being discussed. If someone wanted to discuss Islamic terrorism in general, GD would be a perfect place for it. ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2017, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explosions-at-manchester-arena-england/787243/178 "2017-05-24T13:43:59Z")
Insights on suicide bomber: > [@](#): > > A former classmate of Abedi’s has told the BBC that “he was a very jokey lad” but was at the same time was “very short tempered”, becoming angry at “the littlest thing”. > > “He had a short temper but apart from that was a very sound lad,” said the man, who did not want to be identified. > > He said that Abedi was “away at random times throughout the year. but I don’t know if that was because he was out the country or just didn’t show up to school, because he did hang around with the wrong crowd and was very, very gullible.” > > “You could tell him anything and he would pretty much fall for it.” > > He said that, before leaving the school in 2011, Abedi became “more and more religious” and that this might explain why he cut ties with former classmates. > **[Manchester attack: Three more arrests in bomber investigation](https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-40023488)** > > More victims are named, as the home secretary says it is likely Salman Abedi did not act alone. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2017, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explosions-at-manchester-arena-england/787243/179 "2017-05-24T13:46:31Z")
> [@Delicious](#): > > …if their intent is to provoke an angry response then attacking children makes sense, I’ve been expecting Primary schools/nurseries to be a target for years (I guess there are some things even crazy terrorists won’t stoop to) Ummmm … ever heard of the Beslan School massacre? If there is some shred of decency in jihadists that keeps them from doing particularly horrible acts, I can’t readily identify it, but I’m certain that at least some of them are comfortable attacking a school and murdering children. ---
**Author:** ![Delicious](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@Delicious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Delicious)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2017, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explosions-at-manchester-arena-england/787243/180 "2017-05-24T15:31:53Z")
I had not heard of that massacre, the Wikipedia article on it does say that the intent \*was \*to cause outrage & provoke a violent response but it didn’t work. I haven’t heard of that sort of thing happening in western Europe/America though. Would the outrage/terror not be significantly more if rather than blow up a concert, he’d blown up a school playground? If not for moral qualms about doing that, why is it not done? The psychological & economic damage would be huge…how many parents would keep their kids home after that? Hopefully it’s just that I’m assuming wrong & would make a bad terrorist. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explosions-at-manchester-arena-england/787243.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explosions-at-manchester-arena-england/787243.md?page=10)