# Explosive Device set off on US Airline **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [December 26, 2009, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explosive-device-set-off-on-us-airline/522599 "2009-12-26T02:28:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Driver8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b5a626/32.png) [@Driver8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Driver8)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2009, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explosive-device-set-off-on-us-airline/522599/41 "2009-12-27T16:43:22Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > I’m a little alarmed that the threat level wasn’t raised after this. I understand that airport security was elevated but the message I saw was that we’re going to react after-the-fact and only directly to the nature of an attack. As an aside, I’d like to apologize if I am misreading the nature of your posts. The giant red text and generality of the “DO SOMETHING” statement gave the impression you were advocating a panicked, running around like a chicken with its head cut off approach, which for obvious reasons I consider inappropriate. I realize now that it is more likely that I am misreading your posts, so I apologize for that. This is a very delicate balance: you want some level of security, but you also want to preserve the openness and freedom of modern society. We could severely curtail visitation and free trade with draconian security checks and visitation denials, but this comes at a terrible cost: a far restricted economy and in essence waving the white flag of surrender at the guys responsible for these attacks. I don’t think that debate is hugely relevant to this specific case however: in this specific case I agree that there should have been enough information to connect the dots and prevent this occurrence. ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2009, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explosive-device-set-off-on-us-airline/522599/42 "2009-12-27T17:22:27Z")
I’m getting more than a little tired of these people and their “holy war” against us. It’s gonna get to the point where they’re gonna get a holy war, and it won’t be what they expected. ---
**Author:** ![Markxxx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5daacb/32.png) [@Markxxx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Markxxx)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2009, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explosive-device-set-off-on-us-airline/522599/43 "2009-12-27T19:12:07Z")
It’s the same story as always, you can’t do anything till someones DOES something. It was similar to John Hinckley, his own father and own therapist, said they never took him seriously enough. Jodie Foster thought he was a royal pest but not a great danger to her. When he got her phone number she thought he was rude and annoying not a danger. (To be fair that was before the killing of Rebecca “My Sister Sam” Schaeffer and people didn’t think much about celebrity stalkers.) There really doesn’t seem to be an real orgainzed terror against the USA. Al Qaeda is more insterested in pulling off a “publicity stunt” than killing a lot of people, which would be easy enough. Just take a a couple dozen, sucide people arm them with machine guns and go into malls all at a set time, (or subways etc) and kill people till somene shoots them dead. Can you imagine how for awhile, if that happend, how people would avoid those places? See it’s not about killing people, it’s about pulling off a grand publicity stunt, of course bringing down two tall buildings is gonna be pretty hard to beat. I can’t see how anything short of a nuke could top that. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2009, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explosive-device-set-off-on-us-airline/522599/44 "2009-12-28T02:05:11Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > I’m a little alarmed that the threat level wasn’t raised after this. I understand that airport security was elevated but the message I saw was that we’re going to react after-the-fact and only directly to the nature of an attack. What would you recommend beyond fixing any holes in security this has uncovered? I believe there is discussion about doing away with the color coded threat levels all together. How do you personally react differently to a red vs an orange vs a green level? ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2009, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explosive-device-set-off-on-us-airline/522599/45 "2009-12-28T02:07:08Z")
> [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](#): > > Heeeeyyyyy! > > Naked Airlines: Flying Becomes Glamourous again! Along these lines, the Times reported that when the \ was secured, they brought him to first class and strip searched him. I hope someone saw fit to probe his nuts. With an iron tube and about 200 pounds of force behind it. Just to be sure. ---
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2009, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explosive-device-set-off-on-us-airline/522599/46 "2009-12-28T02:30:40Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > Along these lines, the Times reported that when the \ was secured, they brought him to first class and strip searched him. I hope someone saw fit to probe his nuts. With an iron tube and about 200 pounds of force behind it. Just to be sure. works for me ---
**Author:** ![Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/malleus_incus_stapes/32/3293_2.png) [@Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malleus_Incus_Stapes)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2009, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explosive-device-set-off-on-us-airline/522599/47 "2009-12-28T02:35:51Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > It seems like he just had fireworks or flares which isn’t enough to blow a hole in a plane. Al Queda would have done a better job. My guess is that he’s mentally ill with delusions of grandeur and never had any contact with Al Queda. > [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > Basically “Al-Qaeda” has become the default assignation for any yahoo with a grudge and as much information as can be gleaned out of _The Poor Man’s James Bond_. The reality is that they are a bunch of ass rabbits that make the IRA look like highly trained counterinsurgency operators, and that their imitators barely achieve an even lower standard of effectiveness in their operations. Well. According to the front page of the NYT, the guy claims he _is_ from Al Queda. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2009, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explosive-device-set-off-on-us-airline/522599/48 "2009-12-28T04:09:07Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > With an iron tube and about 200 pounds of force behind it. Just to be sure. No, apparently what we need to do is drop a half a trillion $ conquering Yemen, of all places: > [@](#): > > “Somebody in our government said to me in Sana’a, the capital of Yemen, ‘Iraq was yesterday’s war. Afghanistan is today’s war. If we don’t act pre-emptively, Yemen will be tomorrow’s war,’” Lieberman said. “That’s the danger we face.” [Lawmakers Focus on Yemen in Wake of Attempted Bombing](http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2009/12/27/lawmakers-focus-on-yemen-in-wake-of-attempted-bombing/) Of course if Yemen is tomorrow’s war, when will we ever find time to fit Iran into our busy schedule? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2009, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explosive-device-set-off-on-us-airline/522599/49 "2009-12-28T04:47:09Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > I’m a little alarmed that the threat level wasn’t raised after this. I understand that airport security was elevated but the message I saw was that we’re going to react after-the-fact and only directly to the nature of an attack. Obama today ordered a review of flight screening watchlists and detection equipment, and the Homeland Security Dept. says this incident is not connected to any larger plot. So it sounds to me like the relevant people and groups are on the job. If you’re talking about the color coded alert list, who cares? That thing is a joke, and I think it’s been unofficially scrapped, thank goodness. The people who stopped this bombing probably didn’t know if it was orange or yellow but they were alert enough. ---
**Author:** ![horsetech](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/dec6dc/32.png) [@horsetech](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/horsetech)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2009, 5:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explosive-device-set-off-on-us-airline/522599/50 "2009-12-28T05:56:34Z")
> [@Squink](#): > > \ > Of course if Yemen is tomorrow’s war, when will we ever find time to fit Iran into our busy schedule? That’s next Tuesday, about tea-time. ---
**Author:** ![SecTech](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea666f/32.png) [@SecTech](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SecTech)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2009, 7:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explosive-device-set-off-on-us-airline/522599/51 "2009-12-28T07:50:05Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > The passengers on the plane are very lucky. The feds are saying this guy used PETN. > > [Pentaerythritol tetranitrate - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pentaerythritol_tetranitrate) > > Nasty stuff. The shoe bomber had PETN too. First, “SecTec” is for Security Technician. (Yes I am a bit imagination challenged.) Most importantly, the authorities had nothing to do with thwarting this attempt. This was passenger driven start to finish. We are alert to strange happenings onflights. Richard Reid, so drunk that he couldn’t light his shoe laces, was also an excuse for the scare mongers to pad their portfolios and expand the already inflated numbers of “security personnel”. My main concern at this point is that the material used in both instances, PETN, is not easily obtained except as packaged small caliber primers, and as a component of other ammunition. It is primarily used to “flash” a secondary explosive to detonate it. Reid might have burned his foot off, and I think the current “alleged perpetrator” did as much damage as he could have, even if not apprehended. Generally, explosive detection devices are utilized to scan packages and vehicles, and are not particularly reliable when used to screen people. Too many extraneous chemicals can innocently combine to give false positive readings. (perfumes, hair dye and treatment chemicals, even heart medication: in the US, most are Nitro based, in other parts of the world other explosive chemicals are used.) To detect small quantities of high explosives RELIABLY requires a good pat down or a strip search. I just deleted a scenario much more probable than those that have been discussed, but why give them ideas if they haven’t already thought of it? In short, the only thing we are going to see is increased traveler inconvenience in ways that are irrelevent to any solution. BH ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2009, 9:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explosive-device-set-off-on-us-airline/522599/52 "2009-12-28T09:58:21Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Obama today ordered a review of flight screening watchlists and detection equipment, and the Homeland Security Dept. says this incident is not connected to any larger plot. So it sounds to me like the relevant people and groups are on the job. If you’re talking about the color coded alert list, who cares? That thing is a joke, and I think it’s been unofficially scrapped, thank goodness. The people who stopped this bombing probably didn’t know if it was orange or yellow but they were alert enough. To you it may be a joke but it elevates protocols in different government, military and infrastructure groups. But as long as Homeland Security says the attack they weren’t prepared for is not connected to a larger plot then logically it must be true. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2009, 12:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explosive-device-set-off-on-us-airline/522599/53 "2009-12-28T12:00:13Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > I’m getting more than a little tired of these people and their “holy war” against us. It’s gonna get to the point where they’re gonna get a holy war, and it won’t be what they expected. Oh? In what way? Us killing a lot of people who have nothing to do with it? That will hardly surprise them. You can’t surprise people who call America “the Great Satan” with savagery by America; it’s what they _ **expect** _; in fact, I expect they are counting on it. So, you want or expect a(nother) holy war by America? Against who? Where? Do you intend to kill over a billion people to get a few thousand scattered all over much of the planet? Or just bomb or invade another more-or-less random country? ---
**Author:** ![BrandonR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/779978/32.png) [@BrandonR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrandonR)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2009, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explosive-device-set-off-on-us-airline/522599/54 "2009-12-28T14:15:41Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > To you it may be a joke but it elevates protocols in different government, military and infrastructure groups. But as long as Homeland Security says the attack they weren’t prepared for is not connected to a larger plot then logically it must be true. But to the general public, it’s worthless and at best, a scare tactic. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2009, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explosive-device-set-off-on-us-airline/522599/55 "2009-12-28T15:29:51Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > To you it may be a joke Yes, I’m the only one who doesn’t take the M&M Security Chart seriously. > [@](#): > > but it elevates protocols in different government, military and infrastructure groups. And this could be done even without a color coded chart, couldn’t it? > [@](#): > > But as long as Homeland Security says the attack they weren’t prepared for is not connected to a larger plot then logically it must be true. My point, of course, is that it appears the relevant agencies and groups are looking into this. When you said the alert wasn’t being raised it made it sound like nothing was being done in response. Looks to me like something IS being done even though our level of panic is not being designated orange or purple or magenta. Meanwhile, predictably, a couple of minor incidents with airline passengers have been made into big deals because people are jumpy. These include a guy on a flight from Amsterdam - the same exact flight, actually - who may have been abusive to the crew, and a couple of Arab-looking men who scared some fellow passengers by watching _The Kingdom_ on their laptop. ---
**Author:** ![Wheelz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wheelz/32/5718_2.png) [@Wheelz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wheelz)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2009, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explosive-device-set-off-on-us-airline/522599/56 "2009-12-28T16:29:57Z")
> [@Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](#): > > Well. According to the front page of the NYT, the guy claims he _is_ from Al Queda. I’m not sure how credible that claim is, but if this half-assed botched bombing attempt is the best Al Quaeda can do these days, I dare say we can probably consider that good news. ---
**Author:** ![Diceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Diceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diceman)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2009, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explosive-device-set-off-on-us-airline/522599/57 "2009-12-28T17:43:54Z")
I heard on a news report that witnesses saw his lap on fire. I’m guessing that this idiot probably burned his dick off. Maybe he should win a Darwin award. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2009, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explosive-device-set-off-on-us-airline/522599/58 "2009-12-28T23:01:58Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > My point, of course, is that it appears the relevant agencies and groups are looking into this. When you said the alert wasn’t being raised it made it sound like nothing was being done in response. Looks to me like something IS being done even though our level of panic is not being designated orange or purple or magenta. Nothing is being done other than airline protocol. Think of how this looks to anyone planning attacks. They will react based on what we do. Next it will be schools and we will react by changing school protocols. We’re reacting to what they do instead of reacting to them. This was a person on a watch list who bought his ticket with cash a week in advance, and traveled with no luggage. It is rumored he didn’t have a passport. How many WTF’s does Homeland security have to see before the connected dots form a picture? > [@Marley23](#): > > Meanwhile, predictably, a couple of minor incidents with airline passengers have been made into big deals because people are jumpy. These include a guy on a flight from Amsterdam - the same exact flight, actually - who may have been abusive to the crew, and a couple of Arab-looking men who scared some fellow passengers by watching _The Kingdom_ on their laptop. Meanwhile, the British had already refused entry to this person. For Homeland Security to come out and say there are no further attacks planned borders on silly in light of their failure to match British security levels. I have to question the effectiveness of an agency that is headed by someone who worried about using the word “terrorist” in a sentence. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2009, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explosive-device-set-off-on-us-airline/522599/59 "2009-12-28T23:20:15Z")
You make some good points about foresight, **Magiver** , but given that this happened only on Friday I’m not ready to conclude that nothing else is going to be done in response. I agree that this guy should have been caught ahead of time. But would you mind explaining what you’re looking for here other than elevated protocols and alert levels? Given that nothing has happened in three days, I think it’s fair to say this loser was not part of a larger plot. I’m also skeptical that these guys are planning to target schools, seeing as how they are still going after planes eight years after their one big splash. Going after schools would sew panic, but considering how few people they have, they feel they need to concentrate on visible, resonant targets, and that largely means political and transportation centers. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2009, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explosive-device-set-off-on-us-airline/522599/60 "2009-12-28T23:55:27Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Given that nothing has happened in three days, I think it’s fair to say this loser was not part of a larger plot. I’m also skeptical that these guys are planning to target schools, seeing as how they are still going after planes eight years after their one big splash. Going after schools would sew panic, but considering how few people they have, they feel they need to concentrate on visible, resonant targets, and that largely means political and transportation centers. Al Qaida has an MO of announcing their intentions. I really don’t understand it but it’s something they’ve done in the past. This guy is saying there are more to come. When you look at 9/11, it wasn’t just a terrorist attack, it was designed to hit the economic, political, and military icons of the United States. Using this as a platform of thought, I would anticipate an attack on infrastructure that has a history of cascade failure or something that can be leveraged in an asymmetric warfare tactic. This is their strategy. There is also a desire to link events to dates. The next attack could be New Years Day, Obama’s inauguration, Easter, or anything that adds sensationalism to the event. Whether this is a Bin Laden driven plot with more than a month’s planning or a group of wanna-be Bin Ladens is the question. I don’t think Homeland Security can answer it. I don’t want to hear that they know it was an isolated incident when they can’t know. I want to hear an apology for him getting through through and a promise to fix it. I don’t know why a lawyer is heading up this agency when it should be someone from the FBI, CIA or NSA. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explosive-device-set-off-on-us-airline/522599.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explosive-device-set-off-on-us-airline/522599.md?page=4)