# Extinct Ape Species **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 9, 2001, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/extinct-ape-species/61358 "2001-04-09T14:46:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Fiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e274bd/32.png) [@Fiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiver)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2001, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/extinct-ape-species/61358/1 "2001-04-09T14:46:08Z")
It’s the hominids like _H. neandertalensis_ and _A. afarensis_ that get all the press, but surely the fossil record has given up evidence of many primate species that are unquestionably apes or ape progenitors. I’d like to know more about these. Gorillas, chimpanzees and orangutangs are so different from each other (especially the third from the first two), with such different lifestyles, that I’m curious to know more about natural selection’s other experiments along these lines. I tried doing a google search on “extinct apes” and “extinct ape species,” but sadly (if not surprisingly), most of the results were creationist sites “debunking” hominid finds. Some help? Books, websites? ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2001, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/extinct-ape-species/61358/2 "2001-04-09T15:38:12Z")
[This web page](http://www.d.umn.edu/cla/faculty/troufs/anth1602/pcprimpr.html) (from the University of Minnesota at Duluth) looks like it would be a good place to start; it has links to various other web pages, plus it will give you a handle on the terminology which will help you make more focused searches (i.e., _Gigantopithecus_, _Oreopithecus_, _Proconsul_, and so forth, instead of “extinct ape”), which might cut down on the creationist sites some. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2001, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/extinct-ape-species/61358/3 "2001-04-09T21:28:51Z")
One problem in this area is the fact that apes typically live in heavily forested areas, with moist soils that are not conducive to fossilization. AFAIK not a single fossil chimpanzee or gorilla has ever been found. A key development in prehuman evolution was a move away from the forests, where an erect stance was advantageous and the long arms of a tree-dwelling ape no longer so useful as they had been in the forest. At the same time, this meant that our forbears were now running about over a much more arid landscape, where their remains had a much better chance of winding up in our museums millions of years later. To an certain point, we can say that the ape story is our story, since it’s thought that humans and chimpanzees split only about 6 - 10M years ago. The exact “missing link”, i.e. the last common ancestor was probably not too different from _Ardepithicus ramidus_, which was found a few years ago. (I’m not an anthropologist but I play one on the SDMB). ---
**Author:** ![Humble\_Servant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/47e85d/32.png) [@Humble\_Servant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Humble_Servant)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2001, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/extinct-ape-species/61358/4 "2001-04-09T21:38:41Z")
[The NY Times (note that this link will stop working after a few days) ran this article yesterday](http://www.nytimes.com/2001/04/08/science/08FOSS.html?searchpv=site01) (which I read because **Jois** had alerted me to the topic a couple of weeks ago). While, as the article indicates, the big controversy is whether the fossils in question are hominid, about 2/3 of the way down you get this little whimper from a primate guy who really wishes the fossils were chimp because the fossil record of the early evolution of non-hominid primates is apparently very skimpy. It seems that the big payoff for lots of the hard work fossil hunters do is in dinosaurs or humans. Apes that don’t lead to humans probably get fewer resources. ---
**Author:** ![Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tapioca_Dextrin)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2001, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/extinct-ape-species/61358/5 "2001-04-09T21:49:20Z")
Another good place to start might be [http://www.talkorigins.com](http://www.talkorigins.com), especially [this page](http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/homs/rleakey.html). Also, there is a great site for all stuff fossiliferous at [berkeley](http://www.ucmp.berkeley.edu/index.html), try this page If you are totally nuts, try out the [aquatic ape theory](http://imprint.uwaterloo.ca/issues/100496/4Science/science03.html). ---
**Author:** ![Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tapioca_Dextrin)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2001, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/extinct-ape-species/61358/6 "2001-04-09T21:51:16Z")
Another good place to start might be [http://www.talkorigins.com](http://www.talkorigins.com), especially [this page](http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/homs/rleakey.html). Also, there is a great site for all stuff fossiliferous at [berkeley](http://www.ucmp.berkeley.edu/index.html), try this page If you are totally nuts, try out the [aquatic ape theory](http://www.geocities.com/Athens/5168/aat.html). ---
**Author:** ![Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tapioca_Dextrin)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2001, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/extinct-ape-species/61358/7 "2001-04-09T21:58:43Z")
sorry about the double post folks. More on the aquatic ape theory at [http://www.primate.wisc.edu/pin/aquatic.html](http://www.primate.wisc.edu/pin/aquatic.html) and [http://www.geocities.com/Athens/5168/aat.html](http://www.geocities.com/Athens/5168/aat.html) ---
**Author:** ![Fiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e274bd/32.png) [@Fiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiver)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2001, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/extinct-ape-species/61358/8 "2001-04-10T15:31:46Z")
Thanks for all the links, guys. I knew y’all’d come through for me. **Colin Wilkinson** , hasn’t the aquatic ape hypothesis been discredited? IIRC, the only point in its favor was that it explains why humans are (mostly) hairless. And there are simpler explanations for our hairlessness, so out it goes. ---
**Author:** ![Phobos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Phobos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Phobos)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2001, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/extinct-ape-species/61358/9 "2001-04-11T13:10:18Z")
another good link for you… [The Leakey Foundation](http://www.leakeyfoundation.org/) They study the past evolution of homonids. ---
**Author:** ![Katie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/a4c791/32.png) [@Katie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Katie)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2001, 12:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/extinct-ape-species/61358/10 "2001-04-12T12:32:26Z")
Yet another link - this is the primates section from the Tree of Life at the University of Arizona - they’ve tried to link all species (including the known species that are now extinct) in a phyloegenetic tree going right back to the root - there are some missing sections, and there’s some links that aren’t really known, but it’s pretty good: [http://phylogeny.arizona.edu/eukaryotes/animals/chordata/mammalia/primates/primates.html](http://phylogeny.arizona.edu/eukaryotes/animals/chordata/mammalia/primates/primates.html)