# Extortionist restaurants: "Tip or we won't deliver." **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 25, 2006, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/extortionist-restaurants-tip-or-we-wont-deliver/354174 "2006-04-25T17:53:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2006, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/extortionist-restaurants-tip-or-we-wont-deliver/354174/41 "2006-04-25T21:17:31Z")
> [@Rigamarole](#): > > Just FYI, places that charge for delivery **do not** give that money to the driver. I’m not saying that they do or they don’t. I’m saying that if these places who inspired the memo are determined to shake down customers for “tip” money for their employees, then rather than dishonestly shaking customers down for “tips” (which, “social contract” or not, are still voluntary), they should charge for delivery and then give the delivery and give it to the driver. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2006, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/extortionist-restaurants-tip-or-we-wont-deliver/354174/42 "2006-04-25T21:18:11Z")
if the reataurant is going to refuse service to a company because the drivers do not get sufficient tips then that is a _de facto_ delivery charge and needs to be stated up front before any “social contract” is entered into. Blaming the flack that the receptionist gets on the non tippers is just stupid. Especially when it is against the rules to tell the driver that the order is incorrect. Restaurants need to pay a decent wage and have that reflected in the price of the food. As it is, the servers enter into the arrangement understanding that tips are not guaranteed. I’ve worked as a waiter, bartender and delivery guy. Sometimes you get stiffed. Comes with the territory. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2006, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/extortionist-restaurants-tip-or-we-wont-deliver/354174/43 "2006-04-25T21:31:35Z")
> [@Otto](#): > > Yes, because refusing to service an area out of fear for a driver’s personal safety _is exactly the same thing_ as refusing service because the drivers don’t think they’re getting enough tips. Moron. Oh, well these horrible guys are just refusing service based on their driver’s ability to support themselves- it’s sooooo horrible! Moroner. ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2006, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/extortionist-restaurants-tip-or-we-wont-deliver/354174/44 "2006-04-25T21:37:46Z")
> [@even sven](#): > > Oh, well these horrible guys are just refusing service based on their driver’s ability to support themselves- it’s sooooo horrible! Moroner. If you honestly think that “might not get tipped” and “might get **killed** ” are in any way functionally equivalent, then you’re among the dumbest people I’ve ever had the misfortune to encounter. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2006, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/extortionist-restaurants-tip-or-we-wont-deliver/354174/45 "2006-04-25T21:40:19Z")
> [@even sven](#): > > They used to refuse to delivery pizza to my house because they were afraid of getting shot. Wow, and I thought not tipping the driver was bad enough. You’ve got some hostility issues there, **sven**. :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2006, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/extortionist-restaurants-tip-or-we-wont-deliver/354174/46 "2006-04-25T21:46:02Z")
> [@THespos](#): > > I agree that it’s extortion and I believe that the restaurant is offering sub-par service by outsourcing delivery. Are you and **Otto** using some wacky definition for extortion that the rest of us haven’t heard of? Here’s [dictionary.com](http://dictionary.com)’s definitions: > [@](#): > > 1. The act or an instance of extorting. [exort: “To obtain from another by coercion or intimidation”; this clearly doesn’t apply, since they’re not forcing you to do anything or engaging in any relevant intimidation] > 2. Illegal use of one’s official position or powers to obtain property, funds, or patronage. [Illegal? Make your case.] > An excessive or exorbitant charge. [You’ve not argued that the tip is excessive] > Something extorted. [irrelevant] If you’ve got some other definition, please offer it. I know of street buskers who play for tips. If they find that nobody near a street corner ever tips, they’ll stop playing at that corner. Are these buskers also extortionists? Daniel ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2006, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/extortionist-restaurants-tip-or-we-wont-deliver/354174/47 "2006-04-25T21:55:06Z")
I’d like to see the legal cite that allows the company to discriminate against that particular business? Does it come under the heading of “We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone?” I know pizza companies have run into legal hassles over refusing to deliver to some predominantly black neighborhoods, even though they cite safety concerns. I would think that “We won’t deliver to them because they don’t tip our sub-contractors” would be a shaky thing to have to defend in court. ---
**Author:** ![THespos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8c91f0/32.png) [@THespos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/THespos)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2006, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/extortionist-restaurants-tip-or-we-wont-deliver/354174/48 "2006-04-25T21:58:14Z")
> [@Left Hand of Dorkness](#): > > Are you and **Otto** using some wacky definition for extortion that the rest of us haven’t heard of? No. It seems to me that the situation fits the definition. The intimidation at work here is the threat to decline to fulfill orders. And I don’t think that “exorbitant” need equate to “excessive.” It can be exorbitant in the sense of demanding tips for sub-par service. From [M-W.com](http://M-W.com)’s definition of “exorbitant”… > [@](#): > > exceeding in intensity, quality, amount, or size the customary or appropriate limits So I think the shoe fits. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2006, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/extortionist-restaurants-tip-or-we-wont-deliver/354174/49 "2006-04-25T22:00:39Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > I’d like to see the legal cite that allows the company to discriminate against that particular business? Are non-tippers a protected class? If not, then discriminating against them is perfectly legal. Discrimination is only illegal when it’s against a protected class. > [@Otto](#): > > The intimidation at work here is the threat to decline to fulfill orders. Oh, for pity’s sake. By that logic, every time a business charges for its service, it’s extorting the customer. > [@](#): > > From [M-W.com](http://M-W.com)’s definition of “exorbitant” What part of that shoe fits? Daniel ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2006, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/extortionist-restaurants-tip-or-we-wont-deliver/354174/50 "2006-04-25T22:01:56Z")
Tips are voluntary. Boycott the bastards. For actual interactive service, where the level of customer service is under the control of the server and therefore it’s reasonable to reward good service directly, tips serve at least some purpose to the customer, in allowing them to reward good service directly. For delivery, where all they have to do, and all they _can_ do, is just bring you your damn food, applying a tipping system does nothing for the customer and serves only as an excuse for the restraunt to underpay their delivery people.\* If they want you to pay for delivery, then a delivery charge is appropriate; if they persist in trying to force ‘mandatory tips’ on you, then as I said, boycott the bastards. \*Expecting customers to make up the difference for employers who shaft their table staff is crappy too. I’m tired of being expected to cover for cheap-ass employers. Pay the help a real wage, and let’s reserve tips for _good_ service. I shouldn’t have to give you fifteen percent for mediocre service! Your BOSS should pay you for doing the mare minimum, not me! Blasted accursed extortionistic employers… :mad: ---
**Author:** ![THespos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8c91f0/32.png) [@THespos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/THespos)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2006, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/extortionist-restaurants-tip-or-we-wont-deliver/354174/51 "2006-04-25T22:05:35Z")
> [@Left Hand of Dorkness](#): > > Oh, for pity’s sake. By that logic, every time a business charges for its service, it’s extorting the customer. I don’t believe your conclusion logically follows. The difference is the delivery folks are demanding tips for sub-par delivery service on something that’s already been purchased. ---
**Author:** ![Loopydude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e56c9b/32.png) [@Loopydude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loopydude)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2006, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/extortionist-restaurants-tip-or-we-wont-deliver/354174/52 "2006-04-25T22:05:48Z")
Why don’t the restaurants in question simply include a delivery surcharge? If the food is good, folks will pay it, and probably not think much of it. From a psychological and marketing perspective, it strikes me as silly to deal with the problem of disgruntled drivers by explicitly demanding “tips” from customers. Many reasonably view tips as a voluntary contribution to encourage good service. A “mandatory tip” will strike them as oxymoronic and pushy (though we do see automatic “gratuities” charged for serving large parties, I suppose). Just build a small percentage fee into delivery to defray the extra service costs. The non-tippers will probably view that as fair, and the tippers will probably still tip the same percentage they did before. Meanwhile, the drivers don’t get screwed. Voila, everyone’s happy! It’s all in the presentation, I say. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2006, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/extortionist-restaurants-tip-or-we-wont-deliver/354174/53 "2006-04-25T22:07:27Z")
> [@THespos](#): > > No. It seems to me that the situation fits the definition. The intimidation at work here is the threat to decline to fulfill orders. There’s no threat to decline to fill orders. I’m sure they’ll be more than happy to fill your orders if you’re willing to go and pick them up. What they are providing is a service for your convenience. And if they decide that gas costs too much, if they decide that you are 1/8th of a mile too far away, if they decide that they just don’t want to deliver to you, well, they don’t have to, against which they have to weigh the potential loss of your business. ---
**Author:** ![newcrasher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b3f665/32.png) [@newcrasher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newcrasher)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2006, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/extortionist-restaurants-tip-or-we-wont-deliver/354174/54 "2006-04-25T22:07:43Z")
Correct me if I am wrong here, but the driver’s are threatening not to deliver _ **next time** _, right? I mean I cannot imagine them carrying the food back because they got stiffed. But I can imagine you calling up \*\*\*Joe’s Pizza, Pasta and Canoli \*\* \* and them saying, “ABC Corp? You guys don’t tip us so we ain’t bringing you nothin’ **no more**!” Then you hang up and dial another company. Where did I go wrong here? ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2006, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/extortionist-restaurants-tip-or-we-wont-deliver/354174/55 "2006-04-25T22:16:05Z")
> [@Thespos](#): > > he difference is the delivery folks are demanding tips for sub-par delivery service on something that’s already been purchased. No, they’re not: > [@newcrasher](#): > > Correct me if I am wrong here, but the driver’s are threatening not to deliver _ **next time** _, right? I mean I cannot imagine them carrying the food back because they got stiffed. Exactly. They’ve fulfilled their contract with you from your last order, but they feel that you didn’t live up to your end of hte bargain as they understood it. So they’re refusing to make future bargains with you, unless you agree in advance to tip. THat’s exactly equivalent to any business saying, “If you are going to refuse to give me the payment I require for my service, then I won’t do business with you.” What about our street buskers who move to another corner? Extortionists? Daniel ---
**Author:** ![THespos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8c91f0/32.png) [@THespos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/THespos)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2006, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/extortionist-restaurants-tip-or-we-wont-deliver/354174/56 "2006-04-25T22:19:33Z")
> [@Airman Doors](#): > > What they are providing is a service for your convenience. And if they decide that gas costs too much, if they decide that you are 1/8th of a mile too far away, if they decide that they just don’t want to deliver to you, well, they don’t have to, against which they have to weigh the potential loss of your business. And they’re providing that service for the price of the order. **Loopydude** said it better than I did. If the service costs more, then it should be built into the price of the order. By letting the delivery company demand tips from the customer, the restaurant is effectively promising a service and then failing to deliver (heh) on it. Which is why I said the delivery fees should be transparent to the customer. Covering the costs of the delivery service should be between the delivery company and the restaurant, not between the delivery service and the customer. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2006, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/extortionist-restaurants-tip-or-we-wont-deliver/354174/57 "2006-04-25T22:30:32Z")
> [@NoClueBoy](#): > > I always tip the fuckers. I always fuck the tippers. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2006, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/extortionist-restaurants-tip-or-we-wont-deliver/354174/58 "2006-04-25T22:34:43Z")
> [@THespos](#): > > And they’re providing that service for the price of the order. And they are choosing to decline to do so in the future, which will cost them business but may actually be a money saver for them, unless there is some incentive for them to continue. There’s a reason that tipped employees only have to get paid $2 and change an hour. It’s because it is expected that they will make it up in tips. When a waitress brings you your food at a resaurant it is expected that you will tip her. When a pizza guy bring food to your door is it unreasonable to expect the same? He’s bringing you your food. If you don’t tip, where’s the incentive to bring the food? That’s right, there is none. Restaurants that don’t bring you your food like McDonald’s have that factored in to their business models and expect you to get up off your duff and get it yourself. The restaurants in question may now require you to do just that, and when you think about it you have nobody to blame but yourself for it. A pizza deliveryman is doing every bit the same thing as a waitress, and not recognizing that with a tip is just rude, and the businesses that employ these delivery people may choose to deiscontinue delivery altogether to your location because of it. Good for them. ---
**Author:** ![THespos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8c91f0/32.png) [@THespos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/THespos)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2006, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/extortionist-restaurants-tip-or-we-wont-deliver/354174/59 "2006-04-25T22:40:21Z")
> [@Airman Doors](#): > > There’s a reason that tipped employees only have to get paid $2 and change an hour. It’s because it is expected that they will make it up in tips. When a waitress brings you your food at a resaurant it is expected that you will tip her. When a pizza guy bring food to your door is it unreasonable to expect the same? He’s bringing you your food. So we’re expected to guess as to whether a restaurant pays its delivery people a respectable wage or whether they’re expected to make their living on tips? That doesn’t sound reasonable to me. As I said before, if undertipping is an issue and the delivery folks rely on tips for their wages, the restaurant should build delivery into the price. The delivery person is the restaurant’s face to its customers. Compensating them appropriately should be the ultimate responsibility of the restaurant. Otherwise, they should disclose that they’ve outsourced delivery on all their printed material and make sure customers are aware of it prior to ordering. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2006, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/extortionist-restaurants-tip-or-we-wont-deliver/354174/60 "2006-04-25T22:40:41Z")
> [@THespos](#): > > And they’re providing that service for the price of the order. **Loopydude** said it better than I did. If the service costs more, then it should be built into the price of the order. By letting the delivery company demand tips from the customer, the restaurant is effectively promising a service and then failing to deliver (heh) on it. You did read the description of the memo, didn’t you, where the businesses are saying that they **won’t** promise that service in the future unless people tip? It may not be as transparent as you’d like, but it’s not like they’re deceiving you: they’ve clearly informed you what they expect. If you don’t like it, you can go somewhere else. There’s nothing whatsoever deceptive about this. Daniel [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/extortionist-restaurants-tip-or-we-wont-deliver/354174.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/extortionist-restaurants-tip-or-we-wont-deliver/354174.md?page=4)