I realise its expected in some societies and not in others. There are many things expected in other societies that I need not worry about in the UK. At work here in a university Belfast, I meet a fair few people from around the world. One American student confessed to being a bit embarrassed at having a tip turned down by a few barmen before she understood its not really done here in Belfast.
Now, there’s a commerical impetus behind it all though that I don’t get. At the cash desk in a supermarket, my spare change can find its way into the charity box, but its never expected to go to the shelf stacker who finds something for me elsewhere in the store. Why are waitresses such an honourable case?
I could make reasons for flouting the expectation, can those who are tipped make reasons for supporting it other than the fact that its basically free money?
In my jurisdiction the minimum wage for those who serve alcohol is lower than the general minimum wage. That’s likely based on the already established tradition of tipping but it might have to do with how hard it is to get restaurant style businesses off the ground.
I look at it this way: When I go to a store and purchase items, part of the cost of said items goes to pay employees who put them on the shelves, price them, run the cash register etc.
THe cost of my food at the restaurant goes to pay the cooks, the bussers, the dishwashers and the service staff. Oddly enough, in this particular case, I get to determine (to a degree) how much the service staff gets paid. I have the opportunity to directly influence good customer service, as well as bad.
They’re not an honorable case. That’s how they’re paid. It’s different from how other employees are paid, not necessarily better or worse.
That’s not what I said, now, is it? It’s the mark of a shitty argument that you’ve got to rephrase it into something else, and something stupid, in order to refute it.
I said you don’t need to understand the subtleties, not that you shouldn’t try to.
Not bad advice at all. And this is a matter of fashion.
Some more advice: be very wary of any moral principle you come up with that results in an advantage for you and a disadvantage for someone else. We humans are very good at self-deception for greedy purposes.
Actually, this is a very good point. Others have asked how anyone could object to a system where you weren’t expected to pay anything above the listed price; wring hints at a great objection. We’ve got two systems: one in which prices are 15-20% lower than they would otherwise be, only you’re expected to tack on that additional 15-20% if the service associated with the product is good. The other system has prices 15-20% higher than they would otherwise be, and you don’t get a choice in paying it.
Who would object to a system where prices start off 15-20% lower, and you get to choose the final price?
Actually, it is not free money. Tipping is so ingrained in American culture that minimum wage and tax codes specifically take into account the effects of tipping. Also, pricing is affected by the fact that the owners/managers expect the staffs salaries to be supplemented by tipping.
It really comes down to “That’s the way it is over here.” Hold your breath, stamp your feet, pout and cross your arms because you don’t like it. I will guaran-damn-tee you that it is not going to change in our lifetimes. There is no national will, nor is there a need, to change it. And non-tippers, like the office mates of the OP, will find that non-tipping will lead to no service.
Quit mincing words, Daniel. You recommended tipping without understanding why for the sake of conforming with custom.
And that’s really what this ‘debate’ is really about for you, isn’t it? You don’t dig that folks might actually think about it for a sec and reduce tips, or refuse to tip at all, for crappy service and you’d prefer it if folks just tipped without thinking about it.
I do dig that people might think about it and reduce tips for crappy service. You either are amazingly dense, or you know that I’ve not objected to that.
I also dig that people might think about it and reduce tips because they thinkit’s a dumb custom. All the reasons I’ve seen for that betray a misunderstanding of culture, a callousness, an immature self-centeredness that I’d expect from an eight-year-old, or something worse.
To clarify: I recommend doing this only for folks who are too slow, too emotionally stunted, too ethnocentric, or too self-centered to understand why tipping is important. I strongly encourage folks to understand the Whys of tipping, but if they don’t, that’s not a good excuse not to tip.
My philosophy is a tip is earned by going an extra mile. I don’t always agree with tipping but I do it because it is “custom” in North America. I think the worst incident I had with tipping was with a waitress who brought me my drinks and nothing more. I was going to give her a small tip. When I went to debit the transaction, the machine didn’t say “enter tip amount” but rather “Tell waitress your tip amount”
Me: “Uh…I left it on the table”
Anyways, I’m a music teacher who spends lots of time practicing music I don’t like for students at recitals. As well I deal with people and have to be happy fun and humorous as well as effective for my students all week. I enjoy doing it but at times it can be frustrating. Wheres my tip? I don’t expect one, but what professions do we define as tippable and not tippable?
I don’t have a complete list, but a good guide to etiquette will have one for you. Professions in which tipping isn’t customary are paid through different channels.
Y’all do understand that, if tipping were abolished, you wouldn’t actually be saving any money are restaurants, right? Prices on food and drinks would be increased across the board as the restaurant owners would be forced to make up for the income shortfall among their waitstaff. You might actually end up spending more, and receiving worse service for your trouble.
Yeah I understand that, and I accept no tipping would raise prices. So for me it doesn’t matter a whole lot.
Does a person at McDonalds make more money on their paycheck as opposed to a waitress at boston pizza? As already posted it’s the iregularities of the custom that cause problems for some people.
Tipping is just one of those finicky things of our customs. Love it or hate it, it’s here to stay.
Probably not. Even at the same salary, I’d far rather work at the latter than the former: McDonald’s is not my dream workplace.
However, as far as I know, there are a lot more people with the skillset necessary to be a good McDonald’s cashier than there are folks with the skillset necessary to be a good waiter. The waiters therefore are in greater demand, and therefore command higher pay. The bosses might arrange for this pay to come through tips, but arrange it they do, by setting their restaurant up in a certain fashion.
Let me just say that this had me giggling and twitching like a tickled ferret. I was imagining it being shouted by an Army drill instructor, like in Full Metal Jacket
The fast food industry is a strange animal, worthy of its own thread. If tipping went away, you’d probably find a lot of restaurants, in order to maximize their profits, would mimic the self-service fast food model. There would be far fewer pleasant sit-down type restaurants.
McDonald’s has experimented with a nicer, calmer sit-down dinner/dining experience, and failed at it. We have buffet style places with varying degrees of success. Some people like the Boston Market type style, or the Country Buffet style. Hey, if that’s what you want, then go there. The employees don’t work for tips, but if someone’s coming by to take your dirty plates away, you should at least toss something in the tip jar. If someone’s coming by to wipe up the milk your charming, adorable little three-year-old darling just spilled all over the table, then bringing some crayons & a piece of paper to keep him busy while you try to eat, you should definitely tip.
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