# Extradition and Immigration **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 9, 2006, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/extradition-and-immigration/375830 "2006-10-09T20:00:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![groman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/73ab20/32.png) [@groman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/groman)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2006, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/extradition-and-immigration/375830/1 "2006-10-09T20:00:33Z")
Ok, I have a completely hypothetical question about US laws and immigration policies. Say one is on a temporary tourist visa (or even work visa such as H1B or J1B) from some weird exotic country that does not exist. Say this country has no laws against assault, battery, manslaughter or burglary. Say you commit assault, battery, manslaughter and burglary and get caught and charged. For simplicity let us assume you plead guilty to all charges and you get your ass sentenced to 25 years with one day knocked off for every day of good behavior, or some such. I assume you will not be sent back to your country at any point through the trial since you would not face charges there and would be free from punishment. So here you are sitting at Attica doing your time and your visa expires (assuming it wasn’t already voided by you getting fired or it didn’t expire while you were on trial). What now? Are you guilty of overstaying your visa even though you can’t leave, or does the USCIS have some sort of a special status that makes your stay in the US legal while incarcerated? Say you serve your 25 years but meanwhile the country you were from does not exist anymore? Where do you get sent back? How, certainly you can’t be expected to automatically be able to afford a plane ticket after 25 years in prison? Best regards, Groman ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2006, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/extradition-and-immigration/375830/2 "2006-10-09T20:52:20Z")
> [@Groman](#): > > Say this country has no laws against assault, battery, manslaughter or burglary. Betcha big bucks that if such a country existed, the U.S. would not recognize it or allow anyone holding its passport to enter the U.S. Problem solved. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2006, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/extradition-and-immigration/375830/3 "2006-10-09T21:01:36Z")
[QUOTE=groman] Say this country has no laws against assault, battery, manslaughter or burglary. [/QUOTE] I’d be pretty sure that every country has laws against all those things, though they might be defined differently, and called different names. However, that’s irrelevant to the question, which is about US law. It would only become relevant if you were accused of such a crime under US law, and were in a country where the conduct was not a crime – and that does not seem to be part of the hypothetical. ---
**Author:** ![groman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/73ab20/32.png) [@groman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/groman)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2006, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/extradition-and-immigration/375830/4 "2006-10-09T21:50:52Z")
[QUOTE=Giles] I’d be pretty sure that every country has laws against all those things, though they might be defined differently, and called different names. However, that’s irrelevant to the question, which is about US law. It would only become relevant if you were accused of such a crime under US law, and were in a country where the conduct was not a crime – and that does not seem to be part of the hypothetical. [/QUOTE] That entire part was invented to underline that were you to be sent back to your home country you would not face punishment. It is irrelevant to the question, the question is: You’re in jail, your visa expires, what now? ---
**Author:** ![TheLoadedDog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/35a633/32.png) [@TheLoadedDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheLoadedDog)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2006, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/extradition-and-immigration/375830/5 "2006-10-09T22:52:36Z")
[QUOTE=Exapno Mapcase] Betcha big bucks that if such a country existed, the U.S. would not recognize it or allow anyone holding its passport to enter the U.S. Problem solved. 😃 [/QUOTE] I think the problem would be solved, but in a different way. The US might still recognise your passport, and let you in to spend your tourist dollars, and of course during your time there, you’d be subject to US laws. The only difference between your Weirdonian tourist and one from a “normal” country is that there would be zero probability of the US ever having entered into an extradition treaty with Weirdonia, so you’d just sit in a US jail the same as an American would. ---
**Author:** ![TheLoadedDog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/35a633/32.png) [@TheLoadedDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheLoadedDog)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2006, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/extradition-and-immigration/375830/6 "2006-10-09T22:55:57Z")
Aah, missed the entirety of the OP. Yeah, the “lack of punishment” part would be solved, but not the other. You might end up like that guy at the airport in Paris. Actually, I’d say the US would bust its arse trying to convince the government of the new territory to accept the person back. Failing that, I suppose there might be a case for US residency (an interesting way to acquire it). ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2006, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/extradition-and-immigration/375830/7 "2006-10-10T00:02:25Z")
[QUOTE=groman] That entire part was invented to underline that were you to be sent back to your home country you would not face punishment. It is irrelevant to the question, the question is: You’re in jail, your visa expires, what now? [/QUOTE] When your sentence is up, then they’d deal with it. Until then you’d simple be an inmate. Why would your visa expiring have anything to do with it? There’s no need to send you away until after you served your time. ---
**Author:** ![Carol\_the\_Impaler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Carol\_the\_Impaler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carol_the_Impaler)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2006, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/extradition-and-immigration/375830/8 "2006-10-10T00:24:12Z")
This actually is too too far from reality. Typically, if you’ve entered legally and then are convicted of something and given jail time, you serve your sentence and then are deported. We have incarcerated many many people who may or may not be here legally from Cuba. They serve their sentence. Except we have no diplomatic relationship with Cuba, so we can’t deport them as we have no diplomatic means to set this up. So people just sit in jail after their sentences are completed. ---
**Author:** ![xash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/c6cbf5/32.png) [@xash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xash)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2006, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/extradition-and-immigration/375830/9 "2006-10-10T05:29:57Z")
I’d like to clear a general misconception about Visas. A visa only grants you permission to present yourself at a port of entry. It does not grant you permission to enter, nor does it determine your length of stay. It is entirely legal to be in the USA on an expired US Visa, provided that the visa was valid at the time of entry, and that you are not otherwise violating your “Duration of Stay” status. Conversely, a 10-year visa does not grant you permission to stay in the country for 10 years; you may get a “Duration of Stay” for as less as a few days even on a 10-year multiple entry visa. From [http://www.unitedstatesvisas.gov/whatis/index.html](http://www.unitedstatesvisas.gov/whatis/index.html) > [@](#): > > A visa doesn’t permit entry to the U.S., however. A visa simply indicates that your application has been reviewed by a U.S. consular officer at an American embassy or consulate, and that the officer has determined you’re eligible to enter the country for a specific purpose. Consular affairs are the responsibility of the U.S. Department of State. > > A visa allows you to travel to the United States as far as the port of entry (airport or land border crossing) and ask the immigration officer to allow you to enter the country. Only the immigration officer has the authority to permit you to enter the United States. He or she decides how long you can stay for any particular visit. Immigration matters are the responsibility of the U.S. Department of Homeland Security. [http://www.travel.state.gov/visa/questions/questions\_1253.html](http://www.travel.state.gov/visa/questions/questions_1253.html) > [@](#): > > **How can I find out how long I am authorized to stay in the U.S?** > At the port of entry, upon entering the U.S., the Department of Homeland Security, US immigration inspector, provides you a small white card, Form I-94, Arrival-Departure Record in your passport. Visa Waiver Program travelers receive Form 1-94W. On this form, the U.S. immigration inspector records either a date or “D/S” (duration of status). If your I-94 contains a specific date, then that is the date by which you must leave the United States. Your Form I-94, or I-94W is a very important document to keep in your passport, since it shows your permission to be in the U.S. Complete explanation here: [http://www.travel.state.gov/visa/temp/info/info\_1298.html](http://www.travel.state.gov/visa/temp/info/info_1298.html) ---
**Author:** ![xash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/c6cbf5/32.png) [@xash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xash)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2006, 5:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/extradition-and-immigration/375830/10 "2006-10-10T05:44:16Z")
I forgot to add: If you would like to extend your stay in the US beyond your I-94 date or Duration of Status, you can apply for an extension. This process does not require a visa. You will however require a visa to re-enter if you leave the country for any reason at any time even if your Duration of Status is beyond your re-entry date. Usually, if you are granted an extension, you are also provided with the paperwork necessary to apply for a visa (outside of the US) for re-entry on the basis of that extension. To answer your OP, it might be possible (a total WAG) that the judge/authorities legally extend your Duration of Status until you have served your term. ---
**Author:** ![xash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/c6cbf5/32.png) [@xash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xash)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2006, 6:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/extradition-and-immigration/375830/11 "2006-10-10T06:06:48Z")
Here’s an interesting site I found while running a search on this topic: > **[Home - Allworth Press](https://www.skyhorsepublishing.com/allworth-press/)** > > Find Your Next Book Tweets by skyhorsepub (from the book “Immigration Questions & Answers” by Carl R. Baldwin) > [@](#): > > _Marielito convict can be detained indefinitely: Update to Question 14._ > Cezar Guzman was paroled into the U.S. in 1980 as part of the Mariel boatlift from Cuba. He was convicted of second degree murder some years later, and his parole was revoked. After completion of his sentence, he was placed in INS custody, and the INS ordered that he be excluded from the U.S. and returned to Cuba (his serious crime barred him from eligibility for political asylum). He has remained incarcerated since then, because Cuba will not take him back nor will any other country accept him. A federal court of appeals has recently decided that the Attorney General (the INS) has the legal authority to detain him indefinitely, which could mean for the rest of his life. And here’s a FindLaw cite for details of the above case: [http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?navby=search&case=/data2/circs/2nd/962222.html](http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?navby=search&case=/data2/circs/2nd/962222.html) Including: > [@](#): > > Guzman argues that his indefinite detention is both unlawful, since the Attorney General does not have the statutory authority to detain him for an indefinite term of imprisonment, and unconstitutional. Because we conclude that there is statutory authority for the indefinite detention of excludable aliens and that such indefinite detention is not unconstitutional, we affirm the district court’s judgment dismissing Guzman’s habeas corpus petition. **Eva Luna** might have some more answers regarding your OP. She’s an immigration expert. ---
**Author:** ![Carol\_the\_Impaler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Carol\_the\_Impaler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carol_the_Impaler)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2006, 11:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/extradition-and-immigration/375830/12 "2006-10-10T11:27:13Z")
[QUOTE=xash] To answer your OP, it might be possible (a total WAG) that the judge/authorities legally extend your Duration of Status until you have served your term. [/QUOTE] Not neccessary. You break the laws here, you do the time here. Your legal status has nothing to do with it. An incarcerated person is held until their time is served, regardless of their immigration status. And since they’re going to be deported as soon as their term is complete, there is no need to extend their status while they’re in jail. Any of the crimes cited in the OP, and more importantly the jail term, makes you excludable. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2006, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/extradition-and-immigration/375830/13 "2006-10-10T13:10:22Z")
[QUOTE=groman] That entire part was invented to underline that were you to be sent back to your home country you would not face punishment. It is irrelevant to the question, the question is: You’re in jail, your visa expires, what now? [/QUOTE] But if the crime was commited in the US, then the sentence (which may take the form of prison, expulsion from the country or both) is carried out by the US. See, extradition happens when _the country where you commited the crime asks for you in order to be able to try you_. It’s not the same as _being kicked out of a country where you commited a crime_ - sort of the opposite. ---
**Author:** ![groman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/73ab20/32.png) [@groman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/groman)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2006, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/extradition-and-immigration/375830/14 "2006-10-10T14:38:57Z")
[QUOTE=niblet\_head] Not neccessary. You break the laws here, you do the time here. Your legal status has nothing to do with it. An incarcerated person is held until their time is served, regardless of their immigration status. And since they’re going to be deported as soon as their term is complete, there is no need to extend their status while they’re in jail. Any of the crimes cited in the OP, and more importantly the jail term, makes you excludable. [/QUOTE] I guess I should clarify that I was aware of what actually happens from the beginning. I’m asking for the specific legal mechanism within USCIS that lets, for example, county jail or state prison trump federal deportation. It could be that the reasonable thing just happens on its own and USCIS does not try to deport you before your term is up, but were they so determined, what would be their limiting factor? ---
**Author:** ![Eva\_Luna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e495f1/32.png) [@Eva\_Luna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eva_Luna)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2006, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/extradition-and-immigration/375830/15 "2006-10-11T03:43:23Z")
[QUOTE=xash] > **[Home - Allworth Press](https://www.skyhorsepublishing.com/allworth-press/)** > > Find Your Next Book Tweets by skyhorsepub (from the book “Immigration Questions & Answers” by Carl R. Baldwin) And here’s a FindLaw cite for details of the above case: [http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?navby=search&case=/data2/circs/2nd/962222.html](http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?navby=search&case=/data2/circs/2nd/962222.html) [/QUOTE] I actually haven’t looked at this issue in a while (thankfully I haven’t needed to), but it’s important to keep in mind that in this context, “indefinite” detention just means detention without a fixed end and is not the same thing as being detained forever. The Marielitos, as outlined in the linked decision, have an annual opportunity to go before a review board and plead their case. Generally it’s determined that they are still a danger to the community, and so they continue to be detained. ---
**Author:** ![Eva\_Luna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e495f1/32.png) [@Eva\_Luna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eva_Luna)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2006, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/extradition-and-immigration/375830/16 "2006-10-11T03:50:21Z")
[QUOTE=groman] I guess I should clarify that I was aware of what actually happens from the beginning. I’m asking for the specific legal mechanism within USCIS that lets, for example, county jail or state prison trump federal deportation. It could be that the reasonable thing just happens on its own and USCIS does not try to deport you before your term is up, but were they so determined, what would be their limiting factor? [/QUOTE] Actually the deportation hearings are typically held while the person is in the process of serving his/her prison sentence - that way, Homeland Security doesn’t spend its own money detaining people after they have served their criminal sentence. I’m not sure about the specific legal mechanism that allows the state or the Feds to get their pound of flesh before USCIS, but the way I’ve always heard the logic explained is that if the person were returned to their home country to serve the criminal sentence, in many cases there is no assurance that they would actually end up serving the sentence. And if they were simply returned to their home country and released, many have strong family and community ties to the U.S., or are even long-term permanent residents, so odds are pretty good that they would be back in the U.S. shortly thereafter. ---
**Author:** ![Eva\_Luna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e495f1/32.png) [@Eva\_Luna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eva_Luna)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2006, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/extradition-and-immigration/375830/17 "2006-10-20T22:25:06Z")
:: bump :: This had been bothering me in the back of my mind, because I couldn’t remember the Supreme Court case involved, until a [news story today about a Nazi war criminal](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/10/18/AR2006101801340_pf.html) reminded me of the deportation issue. Basically, if the U.S. Government can’t find a country willing to accept a person for deportation after trying for a reasonable period of time (generally 6 months after the person has served any criminal sentence), [the detainee must be released into the community (subject to monitoring).](http://www.supremecourtus.gov/qp/03-00878qp.pdf)[Here’s the Supreme Court case info.](http://supct.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/99-7791.ZS.html)