# Extraterrestrial Intelligence: Implications for Christians (especially for Jesus as the son of God) **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 24, 2015, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/extraterrestrial-intelligence-implications-for-christians-especially-for-jesus-as-the-son-of-god/735662 "2015-10-24T22:07:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![sbunny8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c77e96/32.png) [@sbunny8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sbunny8)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2015, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/extraterrestrial-intelligence-implications-for-christians-especially-for-jesus-as-the-son-of-god/735662/41 "2015-10-28T04:51:40Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > Maybe I’m missing something, but: why would Catholic priests mind that? Right here on Earth, if a guy wants to remarry after his spouse dies, AFAIK Catholic priests would say, _“Yeah, that’s, y’know, fine; after all, society shouldn’t consider him an outcast.”_ I don’t see why they’d look at each other and wonder what to do next if aliens said _“Hey, we’re going to stop making widowers outcasts, and it’s okay for them to marry again.”_ The priests weren’t sure what to do next because the narrative had been disrupted. They wanted to say “You need redemption because you were born with original sin and Jesus is your only hope therefore listen to what we have to say” but instead what the aliens heard was “When you life has fallen apart, it’s okay to stop blaming yourself for what happened and just start over again” but they kinda left out the part where they need to listen to the priests tell them about Jesus. As much as the priests in the story talked about wanting to bring redemption to the natives, it seems that what they really wanted was to set themselves up as the bringers of redemption, and they didn’t know what to do when the natives started just taking redemption on their own. This is an old story. I am a god, you have to do what I say. No! That first guy wasn’t a god. There is only one God and you can’t talk to Him but I can talk to Him for you, so listen to what I say. No! That second guy was corrupt and selfish. Don’t listen to him. I’m the Son of God and I’m here to tell you that you can talk to God directly. So listen to what I have to say. No! You misinterpreted the third guy’s message. Yes, He was the Son of God but you still need me to tell you what his words meant, so listen to what I have to say. et cetera ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2015, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/extraterrestrial-intelligence-implications-for-christians-especially-for-jesus-as-the-son-of-god/735662/42 "2015-10-28T05:28:21Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > The pope answers him that if there are intelligent aliens, they must be subject to the original sin too and have been redeemed by Jesus’ sacrifice too Why would there be the assumption that aliens would be subject of original sin. According to Christian belief, God created humans without original sin. Humans acquired it by an act of free will and the descendants of those first humans inherited it. So an alien species would have been created without original sin, just as we were. And they may have been more obedient and not broken God’s first rule. Those aliens would never have been subject to original sin and wouldn’t have needed salvation. Presumably they’re still fulfilling whatever God’s original plans were. It would be a humbling experience to learn that Judeo-Christian beliefs are true - and that humans represent one of God’s failures. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2015, 5:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/extraterrestrial-intelligence-implications-for-christians-especially-for-jesus-as-the-son-of-god/735662/43 "2015-10-28T05:59:36Z")
> [@KarlGauss](#): > > I am not a Christian and know very little about the religion. As I understand it, though, a core belief - perhaps THE core belief - of Christianity is that Jesus is, at once, both the human son of God and and the incarnation of God. > > I believe it is also the case that Christians declare that God gave his ONLY son (to humanity). In other words, not only was Jesus human, but his life and death cemented God’s unique relationship with humanity. > > If I am right about those things, how would the fact that Jesus was a human square with the fact that the Universe contains non-human intelligent life? Fanwanking the situation isn’t even hard, should Xtians be inclined to do so. The difficulty you raise rests on two points: (a) Jesus is the incarnation of God and (b) God gave us his ONLY son. No problem. (a) Jesus’ attitudes, powers and beliefs were the incarnation of God but his form was only human to enable him to relate to us; On the planet Sqrglbple God appears or would appear in Sqrglbplean form, albeit with Jesus’ attitudes etc. That is, Jesus’ human form is a minor costuming detail and not indicative of any special relationship between humans and God. (b) (i) God gave humans his ONLY son, but really he only gave those in Palestine his only son. This doesn’t mean Palestinians have more of a special relationship with God than Sqrglbpleans any more than with Australian Aborigines. It was just an accident of geography; or (b) (ii) God gave humans his ONLY son, but Sqrglbpleans reproduce by producing warblepgts anyway. God gave Sqrglbpleans his ONLY warblepgt. > [@sbunny8](#): > > I read a sci-fi story once about Catholic priests who traveled to a planet 20 light years away with the goal of converting the planet’s indigenous aliens to Christianity. There are a few SF short stories that have fun with this whole thing. One which I remember (barely) involves aliens who are entirely open to what the priests are saying, so they crucify them; and can’t understand why the priests are so upset about the prospect. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2015, 9:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/extraterrestrial-intelligence-implications-for-christians-especially-for-jesus-as-the-son-of-god/735662/44 "2015-10-28T09:52:19Z")
> [@Princhester](#): > > Fanwanking the situation isn’t even hard, should Xtians be inclined to do so. > > The difficulty you raise rests on two points: (a) Jesus is the incarnation of God and (b) God gave us his ONLY son. > > No problem. “He gave the Martians one of His many daughters.” ---
**Author:** ![Biffster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biffster/32/339_2.png) [@Biffster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffster)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2015, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/extraterrestrial-intelligence-implications-for-christians-especially-for-jesus-as-the-son-of-god/735662/45 "2015-10-28T15:10:06Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Why would there be the assumption that aliens would be subject of original sin. According to Christian belief, God created humans without original sin. Humans acquired it by an act of free will and the descendants of those first humans inherited it. > > So an alien species would have been created without original sin, just as we were. And they may have been more obedient and not broken God’s first rule. Those aliens would never have been subject to original sin and wouldn’t have needed salvation. Presumably they’re still fulfilling whatever God’s original plans were. > > It would be a humbling experience to learn that Judeo-Christian beliefs are true - and that humans represent one of God’s failures. Not failures—not at all. Every story needs a conflict, and if man and woman hadn’t been disobedient and eaten of the fruit from the tree of knowledge of good and evil, it would be a pretty boring story. Man was MEANT to think for himself and move from a state of innocence to experience of the world and of life. We weren’t supposed to remain ignorant. The whole “sin” thing is really just a red herring. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2015, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/extraterrestrial-intelligence-implications-for-christians-especially-for-jesus-as-the-son-of-god/735662/46 "2015-10-28T15:21:08Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Why would there be the assumption that aliens would be subject of original sin. According to Christian belief, God created humans without original sin. Humans acquired it by an act of free will and the descendants of those first humans inherited it. > > So an alien species would have been created without original sin, just as we were. And they may have been more obedient and not broken God’s first rule. Those aliens would never have been subject to original sin and wouldn’t have needed salvation. Presumably they’re still fulfilling whatever God’s original plans were. > > It would be a humbling experience to learn that Judeo-Christian beliefs are true - and that humans represent one of God’s failures. > [@eburacum45](#): > > This is really interesting, thanks. Lewis’s attitude to interplanetary colonisation and the redemption question seems to have been one of wishing the whole problem would go away. I have not read the Rocketry essay, but as someone mentioned upthread, the Space Trilogy takes the issue head-on and posits how God’s relationship with intelligent species on other planets might play out quite differently from our own. Other worlds developed along the lines that **Little Nemo** lays out, and the people of Earth did indeed fail uniquely badly. This is meant to be humbling, but not uniquely so. The idea that human beings are depraved sinners redeemable only through God’s grace is standard doctrine for many Christian groups. ---
**Author:** ![Knowed\_Out](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/knowed_out/32/7380_2.png) [@Knowed\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knowed_Out)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2015, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/extraterrestrial-intelligence-implications-for-christians-especially-for-jesus-as-the-son-of-god/735662/47 "2015-10-28T18:58:21Z")
All this depends on if the alien species is on the same intellectual level as humans. Aliens that are comparable to animals or below will just be seen as more animals. Aliens that are more advanced than us will be seen as enemies and/or demons. If history is any indication, aliens on our level will be seen as pagans and heathens who need their souls saved. If they have resources we want, they’ll be converted at gunpoint. If we’ve learned from our mistakes and hold back on the violence, it can lead to a cultural exchange, which will cause internal strife in the belief systems of both species. ---
**Author:** ![Biffster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biffster/32/339_2.png) [@Biffster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffster)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2015, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/extraterrestrial-intelligence-implications-for-christians-especially-for-jesus-as-the-son-of-god/735662/48 "2015-10-28T20:18:44Z")
> [@Knowed\_Out](#): > > All this depends on if the alien species is on the same intellectual level as humans. Aliens that are comparable to animals or below will just be seen as more animals. Aliens that are more advanced than us will be seen as enemies and/or demons. > > If history is any indication, aliens on our level will be seen as pagans and heathens who need their souls saved. If they have resources we want, they’ll be converted at gunpoint. > > If we’ve learned from our mistakes and hold back on the violence, it can lead to a cultural exchange, which will cause internal strife in the belief systems of both species. The chances of finding a planet hospitable to life in this universe, with just the right temperature and balance of chemicals, including water, and at the same time finding a civilization that is at the same level of understanding as us, neither more advanced nor less, is going to be virtually impossible. Given an infinity of not just space but time as well to explore, it’s like trying to find a microscopic organism on a needle in a trillion trillion haystacks, sometime between the beginning of time and the end of it, if such a thing as time even exists. That’s why it’s much easier to just invent life on other worlds with more or less the same consciousness as our own. ---
**Author:** ![eburacum45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eburacum45/32/8690_2.png) [@eburacum45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eburacum45)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2015, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/extraterrestrial-intelligence-implications-for-christians-especially-for-jesus-as-the-son-of-god/735662/49 "2015-10-29T15:18:26Z")
> [@Tom\_Tildrum](#): > > … as someone mentioned upthread, the Space Trilogy takes the issue head-on and posits how God’s relationship with intelligent species on other planets might play out quite differently from our own. Other worlds developed along the lines that **Little Nemo** lays out, and the people of Earth did indeed fail uniquely badly. > > This is meant to be humbling, but not uniquely so. The idea that human beings are depraved sinners redeemable only through God’s grace is standard doctrine for many Christian groups. Yes. I thought the first two books in the Space Trilogy were beautiful, and thought-provoking. However the third, which describes humanity’s failed attempt to conquer physical reality, is an appalling mess of misanthropy and stereotyped characters. Lewis seemed to think that the Universe would be irrevocably spoiled by the actions of humanity; we are fallen and unworthy, he seems to say, so we should keep to our own planet. If the rest of the universe is still in a state of grace, then surely we can only benefit from contact with it. Far more likely, even the most devout monotheistic extraterrestrials would look aghast at the cult of original sin, punishment, blame and redemption that has taken hold on our world. ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2015, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/extraterrestrial-intelligence-implications-for-christians-especially-for-jesus-as-the-son-of-god/735662/50 "2015-10-30T21:43:28Z")
> [@pkbites](#): > > The OP goes hand in hand with a question I asked of true believers long ago: if God has always existed, what was he doing \*before \*he created the Earth? He certainly wasn’t just sitting around for a centillion of eternal eternities doing nothing, was he? > > IMHO the very existence of an intelligent-design creator makes life elsewhere far more apt. Your use of the word “before” presumes the existence of linear time, post-big bang. Now, imagine if that wasn’t the case. There you go. ---
**Author:** ![Learjeff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/94ad74/32.png) [@Learjeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Learjeff)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2015, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/extraterrestrial-intelligence-implications-for-christians-especially-for-jesus-as-the-son-of-god/735662/51 "2015-11-02T03:04:08Z")
> [@KarlGauss](#): > > a Christian defender (for lack of a better word) The better word is “apologist.” Why would we expect anything to change, other than the rhetoric? There has been no shortage of new facts that contradict religions. It doesn’t stop the religions. Shucks, even specific dates of impending doom don’t seem to have much affect on those who believe them, after the dates pass. Typical response: “Oh, we made a mistake, it’s really XXXX.” ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2015, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/extraterrestrial-intelligence-implications-for-christians-especially-for-jesus-as-the-son-of-god/735662/52 "2015-11-02T05:19:25Z")
> [@Biffster](#): > > Unofficially you may be right, but it did not become an official doctrine of the Catholic Church until much later under Pope Pius IX. > > … First Council of Constantinople ( **381** ) who for us men, and for our salvation, came down from heaven, and was incarnate by the Holy Ghost of the _Virgin Mary_, and was made man; ---
**Author:** ![Biffster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biffster/32/339_2.png) [@Biffster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffster)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2015, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/extraterrestrial-intelligence-implications-for-christians-especially-for-jesus-as-the-son-of-god/735662/53 "2015-11-02T23:04:46Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > First Council of Constantinople ( **381** ) > > who for us men, and for our salvation, came down from heaven, and was incarnate by the Holy Ghost of the _Virgin Mary_, and was made man; Yeah, but that’s the Virgin Birth, not the Immaculate Conception. People often get the two confused. The IC is about Mary being born in the absence of Original Sin, because…well, just because the church said so. And they said so because of the relatively recent discovery of egg cells and chromosomes and the fact that the female if the species transfers about half the genetic material to the new offspring. This meant Jesus COULD have been tainted by Original Sin from his mother’s side, so they had to rewrite his mother to be sinless as well. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2015, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/extraterrestrial-intelligence-implications-for-christians-especially-for-jesus-as-the-son-of-god/735662/54 "2015-11-03T02:36:12Z")
> [@dracoi](#): > > Let’s say we learn to talk with dolphins and one of them says “I want to be baptized.” _They’re in water all the time._ ---
**Author:** ![KarlGauss](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/karlgauss/32/3713_2.png) [@KarlGauss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGauss)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2015, 11:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/extraterrestrial-intelligence-implications-for-christians-especially-for-jesus-as-the-son-of-god/735662/55 "2015-11-03T11:20:57Z")
> [@me](#): > > a Christian defender (for lack of a better word) > [@Learjeff](#): > > The better word is “apologist.” Indeed, and I was thinking of using it. But I thought the word was too loaded and would poison the well. ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2015, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/extraterrestrial-intelligence-implications-for-christians-especially-for-jesus-as-the-son-of-god/735662/56 "2015-11-04T22:52:29Z")
> [@KarlGauss](#): > > Indeed, and I was thinking of using it. But I thought the word was too loaded and would poison the well. When did “apologist” become a perjorative term? I have no problems being called a “Christian apologist” when dealing with ignorance of the Biblical text, cultural contexts, historic Judeo-Christian traditions, etc. ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2015, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/extraterrestrial-intelligence-implications-for-christians-especially-for-jesus-as-the-son-of-god/735662/57 "2015-11-04T23:08:59Z")
Why does “no literal Eden, Adam & Eve, snake & fruit” in favor of a metaphorical reading have to negate the doctrines of the Fall & Redemption? How about this? Our first fully-human God-aware ancestors had ONE job- demonstrate their fidelity to God (the challenge of the Forbidden Fruit). Then through either internal distrust or external temptation (the Serpent), they showed themselves unfaithful (eating the Fruit). That brokenness infected their decendants (Original Sin) who built a world of increasing alienation from God and in desperate need of the Redemption promised by the Prophets & eventually provided by Jesus. ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2015, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/extraterrestrial-intelligence-implications-for-christians-especially-for-jesus-as-the-son-of-god/735662/58 "2015-11-04T23:13:40Z")
> [@jsc1953](#): > > Your use of the word “before” presumes the existence of linear time, post-big bang. Now, imagine if that wasn’t the case. There you go. I presume nothing. Christians, at least the die hards, presume the “big bang” is false, that their God created everything. And if their God has always been, what was he doing before he created the Earth & universe? Seems absurd that forever and ever he did nothing and then ZAP! I, for one, am a watered down deist in that I can believe something created us as I find it hard to comprehend that something could come from nothing, but that’s as far as I’ll take it. Reading religious text or listening to true believers sometimes is like listening to young children. It all seems so ridiculous that it’s impossible to understand how they could believe any of it. I think if ET were found there would be a significant sector of believers that would turn into that guy on “Contact” that blew up the machine. Being faced with the reality that their beliefs were probably wrong would infuriate a lot of them. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2015, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/extraterrestrial-intelligence-implications-for-christians-especially-for-jesus-as-the-son-of-god/735662/59 "2015-11-04T23:18:33Z")
> [@pkbites](#): > > Christians, at least the die hards, presume the “big bang” is false, that their God created everything. Wouldn’t it be more accurate to say that Christians presume the Big Bang _was_ God creating everything? For years, scientists argues over whether the universe had a beginning or whether it had always existed. The acceptance of the big bang theory meant that it’s the former—which is the one compatible with religions like Christianity which believe in a Creator—that won out. ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2015, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/extraterrestrial-intelligence-implications-for-christians-especially-for-jesus-as-the-son-of-god/735662/60 "2015-11-04T23:25:33Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > Wouldn’t it be more accurate to say that Christians presume the Big Bang _was_ God creating everything? Of course some do. But many of the fundamentalists do not. When I was a kid being indoctrinated by religious nonsense by a church that was biblically literalistic, one of the doctrines was that God has always been, he had no beginning and will have no end. Their definition of “always” meant just that. Not when time began, but always. The dirty looks I got when I asked what god was doing a trillion years before he made Earth were priceless. And I never received a satisfying answer. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/extraterrestrial-intelligence-implications-for-christians-especially-for-jesus-as-the-son-of-god/735662.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/extraterrestrial-intelligence-implications-for-christians-especially-for-jesus-as-the-son-of-god/735662.md?page=4)