# Eyes Wide Shut questions \[spoilers\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 1, 2011, 10:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eyes-wide-shut-questions-spoilers/587491 "2011-07-01T10:35:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Lipplog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Lipplog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lipplog)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2011, 12:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eyes-wide-shut-questions-spoilers/587491/21 "2011-07-12T12:43:11Z")
For me the problem with the movie was that Kubrick took the book, written in 19th century Austria, and set it in modern day New York, but failed to update any of the cultural symbols and motifs. For example, in 19th century Europe the ultimate symbol of masculinity was the naval officer. Which is why Nicole Kidman’s character has that fantasy of bedding the man in uniform. But in today’s society, some associate a man in a clean white naval uniform with just the opposite! (I.e. Tom Hanks and Antonio Banderas in the movie PHILEDELPHIA.) Another example is Lee lee Sobieski’s Slavic father, as well as the seductive Hungarian man dancing with Nicole Kidman in the opening scene. In 19th century Europe, the eastern European men were stereotypically seen as mysterious, sexual deviants who could corrupt western European women, and men. Again, this association just doesn’t fit with the social and cultural stereotypes of today, much less American stereotypes. So my question is, if the book was a commentary on social and cultural associations of 19th century Europe, what the heck was Kubrick’s movie suppose to be a commentary on? ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2011, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eyes-wide-shut-questions-spoilers/587491/22 "2011-07-12T13:13:33Z")
If, instead of Kubrick, this had been in David Lynch’s hands. . . ---
**Author:** ![Labdad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/439d5e/32.png) [@Labdad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labdad)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2011, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eyes-wide-shut-questions-spoilers/587491/23 "2011-07-12T14:13:02Z")
> [@Prelude\_to\_Fascination](#): > > 😕 In “Eyes Wide Shut,” Cruise kept repeating what people had said to him, for no good reason. I simply took parts of your post and repeated them, the way Cruise did in the movie. Sorry to be so obtuse. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2011, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eyes-wide-shut-questions-spoilers/587491/24 "2011-07-12T19:04:56Z")
> [@blindboyard](#): > > I think you might be right, but I assumed masturbating into her hair, if it was anything more than a rumour, was just the sort of backstage hijinks that go on in Hollywood. It’s my impression that movie actors generally don’t show up at a set on a day when they don’t have any scenes to shoot. Thus, if Kidman and Keitel never had any scenes together, it would be unlikely for them to get the opportunity to fuck around (and I mean that figuratively) “backstage.” ---
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2011, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eyes-wide-shut-questions-spoilers/587491/25 "2011-07-12T22:01:13Z")
> [@Lipplog](#): > > So my question is, if the book was a commentary on social and cultural associations of 19th century Europe, what the heck was Kubrick’s movie suppose to be a commentary on? I’ve seen most of Kubrick’s movies, but am certainly no expert on his motivations. Could it be that he didn’t intend any specific commentary on anything, but simply wanted to make an entertaining, mysterious film? ---
**Author:** ![rockschild](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/50afbb/32.png) [@rockschild](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rockschild)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2013, 6:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eyes-wide-shut-questions-spoilers/587491/26 "2013-02-03T06:23:33Z")
EWS was released July 16, 1999, exactly 30 years after Apollo 11 why? they have the same destination Over the Moon, Alice! The Eye opening shot is the revealing of Isis, Egyptian goddess of the moon Alice=Isis=Eyesis Eyes wide closed=eyes wide clothed clothes mask our whole being. In the orgy there are more people clothed than naked. He might have revealed too many symbols. The ermine reference I have to believe is a reference to Davinci’s the Lady with an Ermine. Leelee looks cast according to this painting of the girl, Cecilia Gallerani, who was the mistress of Leonardo’s employer. she was about 16 at the time of the painting, Leelee was 16 at the release of EWS. The ermine is a short tailed weasel whose white coat was a traditional symbol of purity. I think she knows where he’s going and knows he isn’t a deviant, he’s pure of heart. note the building next to rainbow fashions is a freemasonic lodge. the movie is about the elite’s tools of mind control to give everyone else anxiety about sex by relating it to death, over the rainbow symbolizes entering beyond spectral light into the realm of spirit, which is why he stops in his tracks when she says that. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2013, 6:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eyes-wide-shut-questions-spoilers/587491/27 "2013-02-03T06:30:16Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > It’s my impression that movie actors generally don’t show up at a set on a day when they don’t have any scenes to shoot. Thus, if Kidman and Keitel never had any scenes together, it would be unlikely for them to get the opportunity to fuck around (and I mean that figuratively) “backstage.” Not having any scenes together =never being on the sets at the same time, especially if both of you have scenes that day. Not saying that rumors were true, just that not having scenes together would not preclude them. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2013, 6:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eyes-wide-shut-questions-spoilers/587491/28 "2013-02-03T06:44:14Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > Not having any scenes together =never being on the sets at the same time, especially if both of you have scenes that day. Not saying that rumors were true, just that not having scenes together would not preclude them. It’s not guarantees of course but it is unlikely,especially for big names. Generally in big Hollywood productions they try to minimize the time that stars spend on set and they don’t schedule a huge number of scenes in a day. And if someone isn’t in a lot of scenes, they try to schedule it so no highly paid cast member is waiting around. So even though it’s theoretically possible if two stars like them had no scenes together it’s very unlikely they got much opportunity to hang around during production. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2013, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eyes-wide-shut-questions-spoilers/587491/29 "2013-02-03T16:21:17Z")
> [@rockschild](#): > > EWS was released July 16, 1999, exactly 30 years after Apollo 11 > why? > they have the same destination > Over the Moon, Alice! > The Eye opening shot is the revealing of Isis, Egyptian goddess of the moon > Alice=Isis=Eyesis > Eyes wide closed=eyes wide clothed > clothes mask our whole being. > In the orgy there are more people clothed than naked. > He might have revealed too many symbols. > The ermine reference I have to believe is a reference to Davinci’s the Lady with an Ermine. Leelee looks cast according to this painting of the girl, Cecilia Gallerani, who was the mistress of Leonardo’s employer. she was about 16 at the time of the painting, Leelee was 16 at the release of EWS. The ermine is a short tailed weasel whose white coat was a traditional symbol of purity. I think she knows where he’s going and knows he isn’t a deviant, he’s pure of heart. note the building next to rainbow fashions is a freemasonic lodge. the movie is about the elite’s tools of mind control to give everyone else anxiety about sex by relating it to death, over the rainbow symbolizes entering beyond spectral light into the realm of spirit, which is why he stops in his tracks when she says that. This sort of crap is why we really should lock old threads. ---
**Author:** ![DonLogan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/51bf81/32.png) [@DonLogan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DonLogan)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2013, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eyes-wide-shut-questions-spoilers/587491/30 "2013-02-03T19:45:44Z")
> [@Fuzzy\_Dunlop](#): > > I saw it pointed out once that the scenes in the mansion with the sex orgy are some of the only shots in the whole movie completely lacking Christmas decorations. Almost every other shot has a colorful (rainbow) Christmas tree or other colored christmas light in it. Even if that was deliberate it’s surely symbolic and not meant to imply they’re literally taking him anywhere specific. I thought it was a neat observation though because I’ve always found all Christmas trees/lights in the movie visually fascinating. It may be symbolic, but I think it’s just eye candy. The whole movie is like eye-heroin, I love it. And if anybody ever hands you a slip of paper with “Fidelio” written on it, GO! ---
**Author:** ![Hail\_Ants](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/dc4da7/32.png) [@Hail\_Ants](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hail_Ants)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2013, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eyes-wide-shut-questions-spoilers/587491/31 "2013-02-03T23:33:41Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > This sort of crap is why we really should lock old threads. Well, Kubrick was known for having an almost obsession with Apollo 11 (there are numerous (supposed) references to it in _The Shining_…) ---
**Author:** ![River\_Hippie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/river_hippie/32/26_2.png) [@River\_Hippie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/River_Hippie)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2013, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eyes-wide-shut-questions-spoilers/587491/32 "2013-02-04T00:12:29Z")
I liked the movie, liked Cruise in it. Rewatching it last time (a couple years ago) I thought Kidman was not right for her role. The scene where she relates her encounter with the naval officer was a little cringe-worthy for me. ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2013, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eyes-wide-shut-questions-spoilers/587491/33 "2013-02-04T02:58:42Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > If, instead of Kubrick, this had been in David Lynch’s hands. . . Dwarves, a veritable conga line of dancing backwards-talkin’ dwarves! ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2013, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eyes-wide-shut-questions-spoilers/587491/34 "2013-02-04T03:00:04Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > This sort of crap is why we really should lock old threads. EWS is the sort of movie born to inspire this “sort of crap”! ---
**Author:** ![Hail\_Ants](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/dc4da7/32.png) [@Hail\_Ants](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hail_Ants)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2013, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eyes-wide-shut-questions-spoilers/587491/35 "2013-02-04T14:08:09Z")
> [@FriarTed](#): > > EWS is the sort of movie born to inspire this “sort of crap”! Well, I don’t feel that it’s just tin foil hat folly. Kubrick was an absolute genius filmmaker. So much so that it’s almost impossible to read ‘too much’ into his movies. Everything, and I mean _everything_ that was in a Kubrick film was there for a reason. With its release on Blu-ray there are websites that have found dozens of previously unnoticed details about \*2001 \*some 40+ years later. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2013, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eyes-wide-shut-questions-spoilers/587491/36 "2013-02-04T14:56:02Z")
> [@Stink Fish Pot](#): > > That’s for sure. > > Questions for those of you who have seen it multiple times (I’ve seen it a few times, so I know just enough to ask questions, but not enough to answer them) > > How did Cruise expose himself (or get exposed) at the sex party? At first I thought a complete stranger would be obvious (he came in a taxi, so that raised a flag right there), and then he got into the mansion dressed in that costume. Perhaps the attendance at these things are fairly standard, and the masks are well known? Other than that, I didn’t see anything that would have tipped him as an outsider, but even if it did, how in the world did they know it was Cruise? “That’s right, sir! [Fidelio] is the password… for admittance. But may I ask, what is the password… for the house?” Maybe a better question is why let him into the party at all if he didn’t have the password? > [@Stink Fish Pot](#): > > I also thought that outing Cruise at the party was a risky thing to do. Assuming these people were famous, recognizable, or important social or political figures, wouldn’t it be possible for Cruise to recognize someone’s voice? The best strategy would be to let him go on his own accord, without exposing anything at all to him, and making sure he doesn’t show up again. But he couldn’t be certain since their voices would be muffled by the masks. What’s he going to say? “I was at this gangbang out on Long Island and I think I recognized Elliot Spitzer’s voice under his Mardi Gras mask?” The whole point is to intimidate cruise since he is exposed to all but doesn’t know who any of them are. > [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > It also struck me as odd that Cruise said, “I need a tux, a cloack with a mask and a hood.” > > Why a tux? > > Nothing Nightingale ever said indicated that a tux would be needed for the party. All he said was “You’ll never get in there with those clothes. Everyone is always costumed and masked.” Costumed and masked - pretty unspecific. > > Yet Cruise assumed a tux would be needed in addition to the other costume items. I don’t get it. Yeah, how did he know not to show up in a stormtrooper costume or something? Funny story. My SO and I were shopping around wedding venues in Manhattan and one of them was this old mansion / social club place. While we were there they happened to be tuning a piano in another room, which made that “BING…BING…BING BING” sound, similar to the soundtrack. I’m like “I don’t know if we will do our wedding at this place, but I would definitely host an Eyes Wide Shut gangbang!” ---
**Author:** ![Tully\_Mars](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7ab992/32.png) [@Tully\_Mars](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tully_Mars)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2013, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eyes-wide-shut-questions-spoilers/587491/37 "2013-02-04T17:20:19Z")
> [@Stink Fish Pot](#): > > So, do these parties actually exist, and if so, is the mask/cape attire standard? I’ve been to a couple of parties where “Eyes Wide Shut” was the theme. The mask and cape were worn by the people participating in the ceremony. It was at a vacation resort where such theme nights were part of the atmosphere. However, only a small number (6-8 couples) of guests were participating. I’ve got a funny story to goes with this. We met another couple there on “Eyes Wide Shut” night. The male half of the couple was very large - say 300 lbs and about four feet across the shoulders. He was a prison guard and had some interesting tattoos. He and his wife were sitting around drinking and telling stories after dinner when the ceremony started. Since we (and they) would never be mistaken as “pretty people”, we weren’t invited to participate. The participants entered in their robes and mask and formed a circle. The staff starting playing the solemn Gregorian chant music. The participants started their ritual disrobing in their circle. Everyone, participants and voyeurs, are silent and serious. Mr. Prison Guard, in a loud, melodic voice, "You put your left foot in, you put your left foot out … " I almost fell off the chair laughing. I don’t think everyone else found it as humorous as I did. The movie is interesting to me because it contains the theme that “Rich People don’t have to follow the rules. They do secret things that the rest of us aren’t allowed to know.” This theme shows up literature and movies from time to time. Several quirks about the movie bug me, though. If you going to have these super-secret parties in super-secret locations, why hire some nightclub piano player out of a club to play the organ. Why not just a good player a member of your circle? Their was nothing challenging or special about the music. Why not just play recorded music? Why the ominous threats of dire consequences if you leaked their secrets? They weren’t doing anything illegal except for the drugs. They were doing the drugs at the ‘public’ Christmas party. I could imagine some of those involved would have their social standing improved if everyone knew they were involved in the high-end orgies. I guess there would be a real risk of getting tangled in a high-profile prostitution bust, because there is not much chance that the ladies walking around naked in the country manor weren’t highly-paid pros. ---
**Author:** ![corkboard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@corkboard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/corkboard)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2013, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eyes-wide-shut-questions-spoilers/587491/38 "2013-02-04T22:17:27Z")
> [@Tully\_Mars](#): > > The participants entered in their robes and mask and formed a circle. The staff starting playing the solemn Gregorian chant music. The participants started their ritual disrobing in their circle. Everyone, participants and voyeurs, are silent and serious. Mr. Prison Guard, in a loud, melodic voice, "You put your left foot in, you put your left foot out … " Do these Eyes Wide Shut-themed parties you’ve attended also include the orgy portion of the evening? ---
**Author:** ![River\_Hippie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/river_hippie/32/26_2.png) [@River\_Hippie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/River_Hippie)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2013, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eyes-wide-shut-questions-spoilers/587491/39 "2013-02-04T23:29:14Z")
One scene I always liked, and I’m going from memory here, is when he has escaped the orgy/party at the mansion and decides to return (during the day) for some reason. He drives up to the closed gate and some people speed up to the gate and hand him a note addressed to him personally. Were they observing him and knew he was coming? Did they just assume he would return at some point? ---
**Author:** ![Tully\_Mars](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7ab992/32.png) [@Tully\_Mars](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tully_Mars)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2013, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eyes-wide-shut-questions-spoilers/587491/40 "2013-02-04T23:37:21Z")
> [@corkboard](#): > > Do these Eyes Wide Shut-themed parties you’ve attended also include the orgy portion of the evening? I’ve already said too much. 🙂 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eyes-wide-shut-questions-spoilers/587491.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eyes-wide-shut-questions-spoilers/587491.md?page=3)