# Ezekiel 23:20
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ezekiel-23-20/185798
**Category:** Great Debates
**Created:** [July 2, 2003, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ezekiel-23-20/185798 "2003-07-02T16:11:33Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@richardc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/richardc)
#### Post date: [July 2, 2003, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ezekiel-23-20/185798/1 "2003-07-02T16:11:33Z")
In Ezekiel 23:20, the Bible says, “There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses.”
OK, I have just become more aware of this verse, and it is shocking me. This is almost pornography. As a Christian, I am supposed to believe that a holy and pure God inspired this particular verse. I am having some problems with that. Why would God need to mention and compare the penis sizes of men to donkeys and their ability to ejaculate to horses? Can you imagine youths reading this, especially female youths? This is gross. Why did God inspire a man to write this down? Couldn’t He have omitted this verse? It seems so unnecessary, especially the part that compares their “emission” to horses.
I await some answers…
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### Author:  [@vanilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vanilla)
#### Post date: [July 2, 2003, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ezekiel-23-20/185798/2 "2003-07-02T16:14:39Z")
I read this in an old issue of National Lampoon dissing Christianity.
I wouldn’t have noticed it otherwise. Sortof like Leviticus, hard to follow.
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### Author:  [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)
#### Post date: [July 2, 2003, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ezekiel-23-20/185798/3 "2003-07-02T16:27:23Z")
There are all kinds of gross things in the Bible. I seem to remember Abraham’s daughters having sex with him while he was asleep so they could get pregnant (might not have been Abraham per se, but it was in Genesis, so it was probably him or one of his immediate offspring).
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### Author:  [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)
#### Post date: [July 2, 2003, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ezekiel-23-20/185798/4 "2003-07-02T16:48:14Z")
Check this one out:
> [@](#):
>
> **1 Samuel 15**
> 2 This is what the LORD Almighty says: ‘I will punish the Amalekites for what they did to Israel when they waylaid them as they came up from Egypt. 3 Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy everything that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, **children and infants,** cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.’ "
I find this kind of stuff far more disturbing than donkey schlong and horse jizz.
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### Author:  [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)
#### Post date: [July 2, 2003, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ezekiel-23-20/185798/5 "2003-07-02T17:05:03Z")
I think the purpose of the Ezekiel verse is to gross you out. The two sisters (Israel and Judah) are being condemned as adulterers (since they left the worship of Yahweh to ‘lust’ after other gods). Apostasy of this sort is a serious wrong-doing, so the prophet condemns it.
Besides, this was written in a farming/herding culture. People would have been familiar with the sight of animals mating.
Regards,
Shodan
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### Author:  [@cedric45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cedric45)
#### Post date: [July 2, 2003, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ezekiel-23-20/185798/6 "2003-07-02T18:14:56Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Lord Ashtar \*
> \*\*There are all kinds of gross things in the Bible. I seem to remember Abraham’s daughters having sex with him while he was asleep so they could get pregnant (might not have been Abraham per se, but it was in Genesis, so it was probably him or one of his immediate offspring). \*\*
That was Lot and his daughters after the destruction of Sodom. Lot was Abraham’s brother-in-law. Still pretty gross no matter what. Not too strange is the fact that you don’t hear a word about ole Lot after that!
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### Author:  [@amarinth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarinth)
#### Post date: [July 2, 2003, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ezekiel-23-20/185798/7 "2003-07-02T18:15:40Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Lord Ashtar \*
> \*\*There are all kinds of gross things in the Bible. I seem to remember Abraham’s daughters having sex with him while he was asleep so they could get pregnant (might not have been Abraham per se, but it was in Genesis, so it was probably him or one of his immediate offspring). \*\*
It was Lot (Abraham’s nephew) and his daughters. Genesis 19.
There’s also the fight between two women over whether or not to eat one’s son in II Kings 6, which is my grossout moment.
The Bible is kind of icky in many places.
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### Author:  [@richardc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/richardc)
#### Post date: [July 2, 2003, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ezekiel-23-20/185798/8 "2003-07-02T18:18:13Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Shodan \*
> \*\*I think the purpose of the Ezekiel verse is to gross you out. The two sisters (Israel and Judah) are being condemned as adulterers (since they left the worship of Yahweh to ‘lust’ after other gods). Apostasy of this sort is a serious wrong-doing, so the prophet condemns it.
>
> Besides, this was written in a farming/herding culture. People would have been familiar with the sight of animals mating.
>
> Regards,
> Shodan \*\*
It is not just about the grossness. It is the sex. I can’t imagine Christian women, especially young Christian women, reading this verse and what kind of lustful thoughts it might produce in them; therefore, I cannot see how God could inspire such a thing, especially when Christians (well, Catholics at least) are called to be chaste in thought. “Blessed are the pure in heart…”
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### Author:  [@Amp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amp)
#### Post date: [July 2, 2003, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ezekiel-23-20/185798/9 "2003-07-02T18:20:44Z")
You would think that the Fundies would want the Government to slap a “Mature Reading” label on that puppy.
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### Author:  [@UrbanChic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UrbanChic)
#### Post date: [July 2, 2003, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ezekiel-23-20/185798/10 "2003-07-02T18:30:15Z")
[hijack]
If someone Photoshops a pic of a Bible with one of those ubiquitous parental advisory labels, I’ll make it my desktop wallpaper for a month!
[/hijack]
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### Author:  [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)
#### Post date: [July 2, 2003, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ezekiel-23-20/185798/11 "2003-07-02T18:45:33Z")
Ummm … I don’t guess too many normal, healthy girls actually get excited by the idea of donkey schlong, which is sort of the point of the verse.
Much like life, God and the Bible do not always give us what we expect or want. Part of faith is embracing this.
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### Author:  [@IzzyR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IzzyR)
#### Post date: [July 2, 2003, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ezekiel-23-20/185798/12 "2003-07-02T18:51:41Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by richardc \*
> In Ezekiel 23:20, the Bible says, “There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses.”
>
> OK, I have just become more aware of this verse, and it is shocking me. This is almost pornography. As a Christian, I am supposed to believe that a holy and pure God inspired this particular verse. I am having some problems with that. Why would God need to mention and compare the penis sizes of men to donkeys and their ability to ejaculate to horses? Can you imagine youths reading this, especially female youths? This is gross. Why did God inspire a man to write this down? Couldn’t He have omitted this verse? It seems so unnecessary, especially the part that compares their “emission” to horses.
>
> I await some answers…
It does not actually say this in the Bible. There is no reference to genitals, only to “flesh”. The sentence is not comparing the “size” or “ability to ejaculate” to anything. It is comparing the people (unfavorably) to animals. As in “she went and had an affair with that piece of donkey meat”. Or something like that.
Of course, you might quibble with this as well, and I don’t intend to debate this. But I looked at this verse in the original Hebrew, and - just to see where you might have gotten it from - in the KJV. And it does not say what you say it does. So the question is - where did you get this from? Is it something you made up yourself, or is it something you picked up from some other anti-religious site?
I await some answers…
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### Author:  [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)
#### Post date: [July 2, 2003, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ezekiel-23-20/185798/13 "2003-07-02T19:01:36Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by JuanitaTech \*
> \*\*[hijack]
> If someone Photoshops a pic of a Bible with one of those ubiquitous parental advisory labels, I’ll make it my desktop wallpaper for a month!
> [/hijack] \*\*
Merry solstice, JT:
[http://www.cafeshops.com/cp/store.aspx?s=landoverbaptist.50003](http://www.cafeshops.com/cp/store.aspx?s=landoverbaptist.50003)
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### Author:  [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)
#### Post date: [July 2, 2003, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ezekiel-23-20/185798/14 "2003-07-02T19:06:02Z")
> [@](#):
>
> Is it something you made up yourself, or is it something you picked up from some other anti-religious site?
**IzzyR** , the line as quoted in the OP comes from the [NIV (New Int’l Version) translation](http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?passage=Ezekiel+23&version=NIV). I don’t have my study Bible to hand, so I can’t speak to the process of translating that particular verse, but it most assuredly is **not** fabricated, and I rather think you owe the OP an apology.
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### Author:  [@richardc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/richardc)
#### Post date: [July 2, 2003, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ezekiel-23-20/185798/15 "2003-07-02T19:09:57Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by IzzyR \*
> \*\*It does not actually say this in the Bible. There is no reference to genitals, only to “flesh”. The sentence is not comparing the “size” or “ability to ejaculate” to anything. It is comparing the people (unfavorably) to animals. As in “she went and had an affair with that piece of donkey meat”. Or something like that.
>
> Of course, you might quibble with this as well, and I don’t intend to debate this. But I looked at this verse in the original Hebrew, and - just to see where you might have gotten it from - in the KJV. And it does not say what you say it does. So the question is - where did you get this from? Is it something you made up yourself, or is it something you picked up from some other anti-religious site?
>
> I await some answers… \*\*
I did not make it up myself, but I might have read the verse on an errancy site.
Ezekiel 23
20 There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses. (NIV)
Ezekiel 23:20: “…and doted upon her paramours there, whose members were like those of asses, and whose issue was like that of horses.”(RSV)
If this is not what the Bible says, then why do these translations translate as they do?
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### Author:  [@richardc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/richardc)
#### Post date: [July 2, 2003, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ezekiel-23-20/185798/16 "2003-07-02T19:17:43Z")
Thanks, andros.
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### Author:  [@IzzyR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IzzyR)
#### Post date: [July 2, 2003, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ezekiel-23-20/185798/17 "2003-07-02T19:29:06Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by richardc \*
> I did not make it up myself, but I might have read the verse on an errancy site.
>
> Ezekiel 23
> 20 There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses. (NIV)
>
> Ezekiel 23:20: “…and doted upon her paramours there, whose members were like those of asses, and whose issue was like that of horses.”(RSV)
My apologies then. However, these translations are incorrect. The Hebrew word is _basar_, which means flesh.
> [@](#):
>
> If this is not what the Bible says, then why do these translations translate as they do?
Maybe you’ve got some lusty translators at work.
Seriously, I would _guess_ that these translators decided that the word flesh was being used as a euphamism for genitals. You decide. (I don’t think so, as above). But it any event, it most definitely does not say this in the Bible.
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### Author:  [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)
#### Post date: [July 2, 2003, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ezekiel-23-20/185798/18 "2003-07-02T19:35:06Z")
What about the “issue” word?
I’ve seen that translated as semen.
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### Author:  [@IzzyR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IzzyR)
#### Post date: [July 2, 2003, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ezekiel-23-20/185798/19 "2003-07-02T19:43:13Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by SimonX \*
> What about the “issue” word?
> I’ve seen that translated as semen.
I have no problem with the translation. But I think in context, the sentence is not referring to the amount of semen that a horse might have, but to the disgusting aspect of it. (I think the “size of the genitals” thing put the next description in an incorrect light.)
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### Author:  [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)
#### Post date: [July 2, 2003, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ezekiel-23-20/185798/20 "2003-07-02T19:44:38Z")
I found this:
> [@](#):
>
> from ‘basar’ ([1319](http://www.sacrednamebible.com/kjvstrongs/STRHEB13.htm#S1319)); flesh (from its freshness); by extension, body, person; also (by euphem.) the pudenda of a man:–body, (fat, lean) flesh(-ed), kin, (man-)kind, + nakedness, self, skin.
here:
[sacrednamebible.com](http://www.sacrednamebible.com/kjvstrongs/STRHEB13.htm#S1320)
and this:
> [@](#):
>
> 1. flesh
> 1. of the body
> 1. of humans
> 2. of animals
>
> 2. the body itself
> 3. **male organ of generation (euphemism)**
> 4. kindred, blood-relations
> 5. flesh as frail or erring (man against God)
> 6. all living things
> 7. animals
> 8. mankind
from here:
[bible.crosswalk.com](http://bible.crosswalk.com/Lexicons/Hebrew/heb.cgi?number=01320)
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