# Ezekiel 23:20 **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 2, 2003, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ezekiel-23-20/185798 "2003-07-02T16:11:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![robertliguori](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/46a35a/32.png) [@robertliguori](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robertliguori)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2003, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ezekiel-23-20/185798/21 "2003-07-02T19:45:37Z")
I’m afraid I’m with Dio here. Millenia (well, one millenium) of hate, opression, and fear based on biblical approval of killing, and you worry about Christian girls having impure thoughts? ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2003, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ezekiel-23-20/185798/22 "2003-07-02T19:45:48Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by IzzyR \* > \*\*I have no problem with the translation. But I think in context, the sentence is not referring to the amount of semen that a horse might have, but to the disgusting aspect of it. (I think the “size of the genitals” thing put the next description in an incorrect light.) \*\* Yeah, but what is the Hebrew word? ---
**Author:** ![IzzyR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/2acd7d/32.png) [@IzzyR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IzzyR)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2003, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ezekiel-23-20/185798/23 "2003-07-02T19:52:23Z")
zirimah (actually zirimas - “issue of”) ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2003, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ezekiel-23-20/185798/24 "2003-07-02T20:02:32Z")
Are we not fortunate that there are no Biblically literate e-mail spammers? > [@](#): > > NOW GET AN EZEK. 23:20 DICK!!! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2003, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ezekiel-23-20/185798/25 "2003-07-02T20:24:33Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by IzzyR \* > \*\*I have no problem with the translation. But I think in context, the sentence is not referring to the amount of semen that a horse might have, but to the disgusting aspect of it. (I think the “size of the genitals” thing put the next description in an incorrect light.) \*\* Why would horse semen be any more “disgusting” than human semen. I think you’re grasping at straws here. When I hear “ejaculations like horses,” I’m thinking quantity…and come on…“flesh like a donkey” = donkey schlong, let’s not kid each other. It’s certainly a reasonble interpretation given the context. This verse may not be fit for Sunday School (or Shul) but it wasn’t _intended_ to be. It’s ancient propaganda. It’s _supposed_ to be disgusting. ---
**Author:** ![Priam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/77aa72/32.png) [@Priam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Priam)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2003, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ezekiel-23-20/185798/26 "2003-07-02T20:24:33Z")
Ok I was taught that, when unsure of a word’s meaning, one should look at the context. EZEK 23:18-23 (NIV) > [@](#): > > 18 When she carried on her prostitution openly and exposed her nakedness, I turned away from her in disgust, just as I had turned away from her sister. 19 Yet she became more and more promiscuous as she recalled the days of her youth, when she was a prostitute in Egypt. 20 There she lusted after her lovers, whose **(disputed word)** were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses. 21 So you longed for the lewdness of your youth, when in Egypt your bosom was caressed and your young breasts fondled. Now, given the context is that of prostitution, and the attributes of donkeys, does “flesh” really sound all that likely? Donkey flesh is not all that remarkable, but donkey dick certainly is. It falls into the same category as a discussion about someone’s “manhood”. It could be quite possible that a person speaking of how a lady “ripped off his manhood” means she took away the abstract concept of his masculinity, but is it _very likely_ given the context? No. Not really. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2003, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ezekiel-23-20/185798/27 "2003-07-02T20:29:47Z")
I swear I submitted this before **DtC** but I had a timeout :), and instead of a triple post(as is the norm) it didn’t post at all so: **IzzyR** - > [@](#): > > I have no problem with the translation. But I think in context, the sentence is not referring to the amount of semen that a horse might have, but to the disgusting aspect of it. (I think the “size of the genitals” thing put the next description in an incorrect light.) May I request more explaining? What exactly is the “disgusting aspect” of an issue _like_ a horse. Since it is not saying they _literally_ have the issue of a horse, amount is the only purpose I can see for this simile. You clearly think something else; what is that? ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2003, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ezekiel-23-20/185798/28 "2003-07-02T20:34:22Z")
Heh. Diogenes said “donkey schlong and horse jizz”. Heh. ---
**Author:** ![IzzyR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/2acd7d/32.png) [@IzzyR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IzzyR)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2003, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ezekiel-23-20/185798/29 "2003-07-02T20:51:59Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by CarnalK \* > May I request more explaining? What exactly is the “disgusting aspect” of an issue _like_ a horse. Since it is not saying they _literally_ have the issue of a horse, amount is the only purpose I can see for this simile. > > You clearly think something else; what is that? I don’t know what to tell you guys - it’s hard to argue about why something is or is not disgusting. I think it is. I think most people would think it is. Particularly in the context of taking it into one’s body, as is being discussed here. YMMV. I could almost swear that in our very own BBQ Pit animal semen is frequently invoked as an insult. But I am loath to make a search on the subject. I am somewhat amused by the suggestions that “donkey flesh” is obviously a reference to size of genitals. I suspect projection of some sort. 😉 I’m pretty sure there are other examples in the Bible of people to be compared unfavorably to animals (mostly dogs, though). I don’t recall any references to size of genitals. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2003, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ezekiel-23-20/185798/30 "2003-07-02T20:52:45Z")
Oh and for more context for those to lazy to look themselves: _Ezekiel 23:21(NIV)_ So you longed for the lewdness of your youth, when in Egypt your bosom was caressed and your young breasts fondled. _Ezekiel 23:21(KJV)_ Thus thou calledst to remembrance the lewdness of thy youth, in bruising thy teats by the Egyptians for the paps of thy youth. Okeydokey, that squares with what my Mom said about Egyptians.(j/k kinda) Oh and **furt** -_Ummm … I don’t guess too many normal, healthy girls actually get excited by the idea of donkey schlong, which is sort of the point of the verse._ I’ll need you to swear that you are a healthy girl before I can give your comment any credence. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![richardc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/7cd45c/32.png) [@richardc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/richardc)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2003, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ezekiel-23-20/185798/31 "2003-07-03T00:46:38Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by CarnalK \* > \*\*Oh and **furt** -_Ummm … I don’t guess too many normal, healthy girls actually get excited by the idea of donkey schlong, which is sort of the point of the verse._ > > I’ll need you to swear that you are a healthy girl before I can give your comment any credence. 😉 \*\* Okay, maybe not a donkey schlong per se, but what about a large penis? ---
**Author:** ![Wolfian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/7ea924/32.png) [@Wolfian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wolfian)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2003, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ezekiel-23-20/185798/32 "2003-07-03T01:09:34Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by furt \* > \*\*…donkey schlong… \*\* Band name or bad 80s video game based porn. In case anyone was wondering: > [@](#): > > 23:20 For she doted upon their paramours, whose flesh is _as_ the flesh of asses, and whose issue _is like_ the issue of horses. -KJV “Doted upon.” I’m seeing felilato (read sodomy) or some other non-child making activity in that phrase, also big no-noes. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2003, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ezekiel-23-20/185798/33 "2003-07-03T01:27:06Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by richardc \* > \*\*It is not just about the grossness. It is the sex. I can’t imagine Christian women, especially young Christian women, reading this verse and what kind of lustful thoughts it might produce in them; therefore, I cannot see how God could inspire such a thing, especially when Christians (well, Catholics at least) are called to be chaste in thought. “Blessed are the pure in heart…” \*\* Then perhaps christians are wrong and God doesn’t actually require them to be that much chaste in thoughts. Or perhaps God isn’t really worried about donkey-like erections, and horse-like emissions, nor easily grossed out, but only his followers are. Or possibily God never inspired these words at the first place but they were just written by uninspired, ordinary, people. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2003, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ezekiel-23-20/185798/34 "2003-07-03T01:33:39Z")
Since basar is a known euphemism for penis and it certainly fits the context I don’t see why it shouldn’t be viewed as a suitable translation. That being said, I certainly don’t think that this verse is “almost pornography.” **richardc** perhaps you’re a prude. And no, I will NOT cite examples of pornography for comparison. ---
**Author:** ![richardc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/7cd45c/32.png) [@richardc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/richardc)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2003, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ezekiel-23-20/185798/35 "2003-07-03T01:48:42Z")
Well, I’m not a prude. I suppose that it is not almost pornography. My mistake. The definition of pornography that I had in mind when I wrote that was not correct then. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2003, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ezekiel-23-20/185798/36 "2003-07-03T01:54:26Z")
I dunno. I think that the def of porn is highly debatable. _I_ just don’t think it’s pornographic, IMHO. YMMV. Graphic, yes. ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2003, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ezekiel-23-20/185798/37 "2003-07-03T02:38:55Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by CarnalK \* > \*\*I’ll need you to swear that you are a healthy girl before I can give your comment any credence. \*\* Sadly, neither healthy nor female … Is there something _you’d_ like to say on the (ahem) issue at hand? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![errata](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/839c29/32.png) [@errata](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/errata)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2003, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ezekiel-23-20/185798/38 "2003-07-03T03:05:38Z")
I gotta back up the NIV translation. Only, instead of the medical terminology, I think a more accurate translation should have used a euphemism as well. “whose bumticklers were like those of donkeys” maybe? ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2003, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ezekiel-23-20/185798/39 "2003-07-03T03:44:14Z")
**furt** -"Is there something you’d like to say on the (ahem) issue at hand? " Just expressing an extremely natural curiosity as to the normal healthy girls’ opinions on donkey-like schlongs. Extremely natural I said. Now move along. ---
**Author:** ![mama2nate\_anna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a9a28c/32.png) [@mama2nate\_anna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mama2nate_anna)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2003, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ezekiel-23-20/185798/40 "2003-07-03T04:47:56Z")
Um, as someone who (prior to marriage) was a healthy young virginal Christian woman I can attest to the idea that a huge penis is not, in fact, something that would have caused me to fantasize. I would have been grossed out and a bit frightened. I could never understand why men bragged about the size of their genitals. Most virgins would be terrified at the thought of some enormous man. Ack! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ezekiel-23-20/185798.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ezekiel-23-20/185798.md?page=3)