# F-14, F-15, F-16, F-18..which one should I have in a dogfight? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 23, 2003, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/f-14-f-15-f-16-f-18-which-one-should-i-have-in-a-dogfight/170663 "2003-04-23T19:04:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![racekarl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6bbea6/32.png) [@racekarl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/racekarl)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2003, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/f-14-f-15-f-16-f-18-which-one-should-i-have-in-a-dogfight/170663/61 "2003-04-29T16:59:22Z")
I’m not saying that the F-16 was ever carrier qualified, I’m saying that the Navy considered the YF-16 as one of the possible planes for it’s new fighter. They ended up going with the YF-17 design, which then after modification, entered service as the F-18. From GlobalSecurity: > [@](#): > > In 1975 the Navy was directed by Congress to base the VFAX on either the YF-16 or YF-17 designs. Two of the companies having a major interest in the VFAX, which was redesignated the Navy Air Combat Fighter, paired with the F-16/17 builders; neither of the latter had experience in producing Navy carrier fighters. Vought as a prime contractor teamed with General Dynamics on a single-engined F-16 derivative, while McDonnell Douglas became the prime, paired with Northrop, on an F-17 derivative. > > To meet Navy requirements, considerable improvements in areas such as combat radius and radar capability were incorporated, in addition to carrier suitability features. The resulting redesign was extensive and, when the McDonnell Douglas design was selected as winner in 1976, it was assigned the F-18A designation So, the YF-16 WAS made carrier ready, which is not the same as saying that the F-16 in service with the USAF ever was. ---
**Author:** ![Padeye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@Padeye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Padeye)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2003, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/f-14-f-15-f-16-f-18-which-one-should-i-have-in-a-dogfight/170663/62 "2003-04-29T17:24:19Z")
I interpret that quote differently. I take it to say the VFAX was based on the YF-16 design but was never built and that the YF-16 was never designed for carrier use. ---
**Author:** ![bernse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a9a28c/32.png) [@bernse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bernse)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2003, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/f-14-f-15-f-16-f-18-which-one-should-i-have-in-a-dogfight/170663/63 "2003-04-29T17:54:10Z")
Vought helped GD design several navalized versions of the YF-16, but IIRC none made it further than just the design stages. I don’t recall any actually being produced or converted to Navy spec (other than of course, the adversery F16 but still, those were not carrier capable) ---
**Author:** ![MonkeyMensch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@MonkeyMensch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MonkeyMensch)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2003, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/f-14-f-15-f-16-f-18-which-one-should-i-have-in-a-dogfight/170663/64 "2003-04-29T19:32:40Z")
Please refer to the F-16 as a Viper, from now on. _Falcon_? Ecch.😉 ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2003, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/f-14-f-15-f-16-f-18-which-one-should-i-have-in-a-dogfight/170663/65 "2003-04-30T00:56:14Z")
Slightly off topic… but what’s the deal with the F22, or YF22? Does it exist? Will it ever exist? Is it the be-all and end-all of modern fighter technology? ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2003, 11:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/f-14-f-15-f-16-f-18-which-one-should-i-have-in-a-dogfight/170663/66 "2003-04-30T11:22:12Z")
It certainly does exist… you can see it in the Air Force commercials. Yes, it pretty much is the current be-all and end-all of modern fighter technology. Stealthy, agile, fast… [http://www.f-22raptor.com/index.php](http://www.f-22raptor.com/index.php) Going into active service in 2005. First one delivered for operational testing last October. ---
**Author:** ![Kilt-wearin\_man](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/82dd89/32.png) [@Kilt-wearin\_man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kilt-wearin_man)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2003, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/f-14-f-15-f-16-f-18-which-one-should-i-have-in-a-dogfight/170663/67 "2003-04-30T13:38:34Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by racekarl \* > \*\*Well Kilt, seeing as the neither the JSF nor the Su-35/37 are being flown in regular missions by any force, I don’t consider them to be regular front line planes yet. \*\* There’s a big difference between a “fantasy plane” - the Su-37 counts here since it’s just a prototype that Sukhoi built but the Russian air force can’t afford - and a fighter plane in pre-production that will see service a few years in the future. The F-35 will go into front-line service with the USAF, USN, USMC, RAF, and several other nations’ air forces. Contracts have been signed, Lockheed-Martin is ramping up production, and plans for phasing the aircraft into the inventory have been put in place. Same story with the F-22 - three Raptors are currently in the inventory, and the first operational squadron is scheduled to come on line in two years. If I recall correctly, plans are for the 1st Fighter Squadron at Langley AFB to trade in its F-15C’s for F-22’s first, to be followed by other (former) F-15 units. Oh, and it looks like it’s the F/A-22 now - current mission profile is to achieve air superiority like the F-15C, then fly in the fighter/bomber role with external bomb loads kind of like an F-15E, with this mission to be supplemented by the F-35. The Su-37, on the other hand, might see service somewhere, but probably won’t. Kind of like the F-20 Tigershark - the righ plane at the wrong time, and a big reason that most aerospace companies wait until they’re asked before they build a prototype for a new military aircraft. ---
**Author:** ![jonpluc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/fbc32d/32.png) [@jonpluc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jonpluc)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2003, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/f-14-f-15-f-16-f-18-which-one-should-i-have-in-a-dogfight/170663/68 "2003-04-30T14:48:35Z")
I say the F-18 is better than the F-14 by…four? ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2003, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/f-14-f-15-f-16-f-18-which-one-should-i-have-in-a-dogfight/170663/69 "2003-04-30T15:07:14Z")
But the F-18 doesn’t have the option to turn into a giant robot, now, does it? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/f-14-f-15-f-16-f-18-which-one-should-i-have-in-a-dogfight/170663.md?page=3)