# F. Christians: is it a sin for a man to be sodomized? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 12, 2003, 6:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/f-christians-is-it-a-sin-for-a-man-to-be-sodomized/148100 "2003-01-12T06:18:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Joe\_Cool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ecb155/32.png) [@Joe\_Cool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joe_Cool)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2003, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/f-christians-is-it-a-sin-for-a-man-to-be-sodomized/148100/21 "2003-01-13T02:21:52Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Ben \* > **Your god certainly finds [coprophagia] to be appropriate on occasion, or he wouldn’t go ordering people to do it.** Whose God ordered people to do it? Oh, wait, don’t tell me you’re talking about Ezekiel 4? That sounds an awful lot like it came from one of those “10 tricks to use against Christians” lists (Oh yeah? Well your god told people to eat crap! Take that!), which hold just as much water as those “10 questions for evolutionists” lists that you hate so much. Do you evaluate your tricks before you use them? Ezekiel, being a prophet and all, got these visions of the future. Sometimes they were just dictations from God instead, like this one. Anyway, one day God told Ezekiel to act out what was going to happen to Jerusalem during a coming siege. He told him to lie on one side of his body for a while, representing the sin of Israel (the northern kingdom), for a while longer to represent the sin of Judah (the southern kingdom), to ration his bread and water, and to bake his bread over human dung (NOT TO EAT IT), because “Thus shall the children of Israel eat their defiled bread among the gentiles.” See? No coprophagia. He’s acting out what’s going to happen to Jerusalem and its inhabitants. They will be so desperate for fuel that they’ll have to cook their food over human dung. Or did you have a better/different cite for this? ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2003, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/f-christians-is-it-a-sin-for-a-man-to-be-sodomized/148100/22 "2003-01-13T03:01:31Z")
Not out to shoot down anybody’s point in this one, but my understanding is that using human excrement (dried) as fuel would constitute “defilement” making the bread ritually unclean, hence the quote that **Joe Cool** gives from Ezekiel. (BTW, given some of the stuff Ezekiel claims to have seen in the book bearing his name, I’ve always felt that he should be patron saint of users of psychedelic drugs! ;)) ---
**Author:** ![Ben](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/df788c/32.png) [@Ben](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ben)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2003, 7:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/f-christians-is-it-a-sin-for-a-man-to-be-sodomized/148100/23 "2003-01-13T07:58:23Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by JerseyDiamond \* > \*\*HAHA **Ben**. I wasn’t trying to be a jerk…Honestly!! 🙂 \*\* My apologies, JD. It sounded like you were being snarky, and I overreacted. But you still haven’t answered my questions. > [@](#): > > \*\*Also, **Ezek 4:12** is God showing Ezekial, who is acting out what is to come, the scarcity of fuel and food that will be upon Jerusalem. \*\* D’oh! So that’s what they mean by “make bread with dung.” I thought it was, er, something else. Well, at least now I no longer have to avoid that “Ezekiel bread” they have at the supermarket… > [@](#): > > \*\*How exactly does one “wax a tadpole”? 😃 \*\* In Chinese, “Coca Cola” means “bite the wax tadpole.” ---
**Author:** ![Ben](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/df788c/32.png) [@Ben](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ben)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2003, 8:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/f-christians-is-it-a-sin-for-a-man-to-be-sodomized/148100/24 "2003-01-13T08:01:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Joe\_Cool \* > \*\*(Oh yeah? Well your god told people to eat crap! Take that!), which hold just as much water as those “10 questions for evolutionists” lists that you hate so much. Do you evaluate your tricks before you use them? \*\* Come now, Joe\_Cool. If I seriously wanted to take potshots at the demon that FC’s worship, I would have brought up the whole rape thing, or maybe the genocide. Coprophagy is really quite minor compared to the bottomless well of demoniac depravity that I could have plumbed. I merely wished to point out that JD seemed to have a bit of a double standard (which, as it turns out, she does not.) ---
**Author:** ![JerseyDiamond](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/8491ac/32.png) [@JerseyDiamond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JerseyDiamond)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2003, 8:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/f-christians-is-it-a-sin-for-a-man-to-be-sodomized/148100/25 "2003-01-13T08:15:11Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Ben \* > > * * * > > In any event, the question is pretty simple. If you have a couple who is turned on by coprophagy, and your god hasn’t ordered them to do it, is it a sin? > > For that matter, suppose you have a man and a woman who are married, and the man is an “ex-homosexual,” according to the folks at Exodus International. Nonetheless, he still has an overwhelming craving for gay sex, so his wife gets a stunningly realistic set of fake male genitals so that he can simulate homosexual sex with her. Is that a sin? \*\* I don’t know what to think of that, but I will give it a try… hmmm, let’s see… eeewww **PRO** : ok…Well, if eating poop is a married couples thing, I guess it wouldn’t be sinful. **CON** : But then again, putting toxins into our body is bad because our body is not ours, right? I don’t think you would be kicked out of heaven for eating poop, but I am not sure. God probably wouldn’t want to eat after you! 😃 **PRO** : Then again, the marriage bed cannot be defiled. **CON** : The bible _does_ portray eating human feces as a bad thing, so I don’t think God wants you to. I think it’s kinda like cigarettes. You do it because you like it or because it’s a bad or nasty habit you are having a hard time breaking. It’s a toxin you are putting into your body that is “God’s Temple”, so you should stop. (just like poop eating) IMHO…STOP THE POOP EATING. That’s me and my .02 on poop eating… :eek: ---
**Author:** ![JerseyDiamond](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/8491ac/32.png) [@JerseyDiamond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JerseyDiamond)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2003, 8:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/f-christians-is-it-a-sin-for-a-man-to-be-sodomized/148100/26 "2003-01-13T08:26:19Z")
Oh, and for the strap on question… If the married man is lusting after other men, yes, he has commited a sin. If he just like to have a long hard object up his butt and he wants it to be skin textured, then it’s ok. The marriage bed cannot be defiled, but you can commit adultry by lusting in your heart, just by looking… ---
**Author:** ![Ben](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/df788c/32.png) [@Ben](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ben)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2003, 8:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/f-christians-is-it-a-sin-for-a-man-to-be-sodomized/148100/27 "2003-01-13T08:58:04Z")
So, lusting after a penis is ok, but lusting after a man isn’t? What percentage of man is the cutoff? Can a man lust after a penis and two testicles? Just one testicle? Half a testicle? If the penis is circumcised, can he substitute an equivalent quantity of scrotum? ---
**Author:** ![Ben](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/df788c/32.png) [@Ben](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ben)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2003, 8:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/f-christians-is-it-a-sin-for-a-man-to-be-sodomized/148100/28 "2003-01-13T08:59:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by JerseyDiamond \* > \*\* > That’s me and my .02 on poop eating… :eek: \*\* Hmmm… I wonder what the rabbis say? ;j ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2003, 9:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/f-christians-is-it-a-sin-for-a-man-to-be-sodomized/148100/29 "2003-01-13T09:16:00Z")
—I’m pretty sure I will wind up sorry I asked, but what is “pegging”?— Oh come on: no imagination! Basically: lesbians aren’t the only women who can use strap-ons on their partners. ---
**Author:** ![TwistofFate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@TwistofFate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TwistofFate)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2003, 12:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/f-christians-is-it-a-sin-for-a-man-to-be-sodomized/148100/30 "2003-01-13T12:00:16Z")
> [@](#): > > Two men can’t be married. Yes they can. ---
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2003, 12:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/f-christians-is-it-a-sin-for-a-man-to-be-sodomized/148100/31 "2003-01-13T12:10:53Z")
Don’t be obtuse, TwistofFate. In the context His4Ever clearly meant that two men couldn’t be married _to one another_. If you want to argue that a homosexual marriage, as His4Ever understands marriage, is possible than you need to set out your argument at rather more length. If, on the other hand, you just want to point out that two men can be married to two women, well, yes, fine, they can, but it isn’t really relevant to the point at issue, is it? ---
**Author:** ![Siege](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dbc845/32.png) [@Siege](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siege)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2003, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/f-christians-is-it-a-sin-for-a-man-to-be-sodomized/148100/32 "2003-01-13T13:16:09Z")
I can’t resist getting in a linguistic hijack here. There are about 10 kanji in Japanese which can be pronounced “Ben”. Here are the meanings of the characters, according to _Nelson’s Character Dictionary_: [ul] [li]As much as possible, diligently, which is used in _benrei_, diligence and _benkyoh_, study. The latter is the exact word I use when I say I studied Japanese.[/li][li]Convenience which is used in _benree_, convenient (in this case, the character used for “ri” means advantage). This character does also mean excreta and is used in _benjo_ which meand toilet.[/li][li]Crown. This character is rarely used.[/li][li]Braid. This character is rarely used.[/li][li]Petal. This character is rarely used.[/li][li]Discrimination or discernment, which is used in most often as part of _bentoh_, box lunch (I don’t know why either), but is also used in _benree_, management. The character used for “ree” is different from the one I mentioned earlier. [/li][li]Bear, as in give birth to children. This character is rarely used.[/li][li]Strike with the hand. This character is rarely used.[/li][li]Looking askance. This character is rarely used.[/li][li]Whip or rod. This character is rarely used.[/li][li]Green frog or industry (That’s what it says, folks). This character is rarely used.[/ul][/li]On its own, according to my usual Japanese-English dictionary, “Ben” can mean three things:[ul][li]Convenience[/li][li]Transportation service[/li][li]Feces[/ul][/li]End of Linguistic hijack My own very un-Fundamentalist view of things is whatever one or more people decide to do sexually is between them, God, and the other person or persons involved, so long as no one is hurt and all participating are fully able to consent to it and have consented to it. If God disapproves, I’m sure He’ll try to let them know. There are things in my past which might shock some of you, and I know full well that some of you do things which I definitely don’t know about!😃 I may be celibate right now, but I’m not a virgin and I’m not a prude. I just figure such things are none of my business. I’d say do whatever you like, just don’t scare the horses, but if you’ve got horses in there, that’s _your_ problem! If this gets me damned or flamed again, so be it. Today seems to be my day for it. CJ ---
**Author:** ![lynn73](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ebca7d/32.png) [@lynn73](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lynn73)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2003, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/f-christians-is-it-a-sin-for-a-man-to-be-sodomized/148100/33 "2003-01-13T13:29:20Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Czarcasm \* > \*\*How about a woman using a strap-on to have anal sex with her husband? \*\* I have no idea, but it seems rather sick to me. What’s wrong with normal husband wife sex?There’s body parts made specifically for that. Anyway, you’re getting into all kinds of areas I’m unsure about. .02 ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2003, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/f-christians-is-it-a-sin-for-a-man-to-be-sodomized/148100/34 "2003-01-13T13:34:18Z")
Again I ask, is it a sin? ---
**Author:** ![Meatros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Meatros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meatros)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2003, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/f-christians-is-it-a-sin-for-a-man-to-be-sodomized/148100/35 "2003-01-13T14:03:51Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Ben \* > \*\*So, lusting after a penis is ok, but lusting after a man isn’t? > > What percentage of man is the cutoff? Can a man lust after a penis and two testicles? Just one testicle? Half a testicle? If the penis is circumcised, can he substitute an equivalent quantity of scrotum? \*\* I’m sorry, but I when I initially read through this I cracked up. On a different note, is it a sin if the husband is engaging in homosexual sex for his wife. Keep in mind, _he does not desire to at all_ , but he is doing it to sexually please his wife-is this a sin? ---
**Author:** ![MSU\_1978](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac8455/32.png) [@MSU\_1978](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MSU_1978)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2003, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/f-christians-is-it-a-sin-for-a-man-to-be-sodomized/148100/36 "2003-01-13T14:48:03Z")
Did not Jesus tell us to turn the other cheek? ---
**Author:** ![gex\_gex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/94ad74/32.png) [@gex\_gex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gex_gex)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2003, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/f-christians-is-it-a-sin-for-a-man-to-be-sodomized/148100/37 "2003-01-13T15:11:46Z")
> [@](#): > > _originally posted by His4ever_ > I have no idea, but it seems rather sick to me. Wow, this pretty much sums up the basis of every wacky fundy belief. Harry Potter? “I have no idea, but it seems rather sick to me.” Homosexual sex? “I have no idea, but it seems rather sick to me.” Dungeons and Dragons? “I have no idea, but it seems rather sick to me.” Rock n Roll? “I have no idea, but it seems rather sick to me.” What a great phrase. They should print it on the front of every bible, as a kind of Fundy mantra. Oh wait, mantras? “I have no idea, but it seems rather sick to me.” ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2003, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/f-christians-is-it-a-sin-for-a-man-to-be-sodomized/148100/38 "2003-01-13T15:37:59Z")
Thanks, **Apos**. AFAIK, “pegging” between a husband and wife, providing they both want to, is not sinful. I suspect a lot of the perceived reaction against such practices is based more on personal feelings than Biblical understanding. But, as **JerseyDiamond** posts, the marriage bed is undefiled. Here as in other circumstances, it seems to me that the Lord is saying, “YMMV”. We are free to make up our own minds on lots of stuff. And God thinks of sex as a good thing, not a bad one. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![TwistofFate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@TwistofFate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TwistofFate)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2003, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/f-christians-is-it-a-sin-for-a-man-to-be-sodomized/148100/39 "2003-01-13T17:36:12Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by UDS \* > \*\*Don’t be obtuse, TwistofFate. In the context His4Ever clearly meant that two men couldn’t be married _to one another_. If you want to argue that a homosexual marriage, as His4Ever understands marriage, is possible than you need to set out your argument at rather more length. If, on the other hand, you just want to point out that two men can be married to two women, well, yes, fine, they can, but it isn’t really relevant to the point at issue, is it? \*\* Fair point. In Holland, in the eyes of the Law, two men or two women can be married. In H4E’s eyes, and in the eyes of her church, they can’t. But soon the law will have to recognise same sex marriage and grant them all the legality that a male-female marriage would allow. The church is not the common law. the common law can be changed. I doubt the church can. ---
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2003, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/f-christians-is-it-a-sin-for-a-man-to-be-sodomized/148100/40 "2003-01-13T17:49:40Z")
[Hijack] _Blackadder : If you can’t make money, you’ll have to marry it. Prince George : Marry? Never! I’m a gay bachelor, Blackadder, I’m a roarer, a rogerer, a gorger and a puker! I can’t marry, I’m young, I’m firm-buttocked, I’m… Blackadder : Broke? Prince George : Well, yes, I suppose so. Blackadder : And don’t forget sir, that the modern church smiles on roaring and gorging within wedlock, and indeed rogering is keenly encouraged. Prince George : And the puking? Blackadder : Mmm. I believe still very much down to the conscience of the individual church-goer._ [/Hijack] [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/f-christians-is-it-a-sin-for-a-man-to-be-sodomized/148100.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/f-christians-is-it-a-sin-for-a-man-to-be-sodomized/148100.md?page=3)