# F\*ck Obmama and ACA **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [January 13, 2016, 7:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/f-ck-obmama-and-aca/743020 "2016-01-13T07:53:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2016, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/f-ck-obmama-and-aca/743020/61 "2016-01-16T15:29:06Z")
> [@Oslo\_Ostragoth](#): > > I’ll be looking forward to your “Thank You” card. I won’t thank you, but I will congratulate you on your good fortune in not having any health issues or accidents that resulted in large claims on your insurance. ---
**Author:** ![Brynda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e79b87/32.png) [@Brynda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brynda)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2016, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/f-ck-obmama-and-aca/743020/62 "2016-01-16T15:35:47Z")
> [@Oslo\_Ostragoth](#): > > I’ll be looking forward to your “Thank You” card. And I’ll be looking for yours for the schools I subsidized for your kids. It’s the way civilized societies work. We all pay in for shared services, even when we personally don’t use them. I have benefitted greatly. I pay in (a lot, because of my age) and don’t qualify for assistance. I am self-employed and have pre-existing conditions, so without the ACA, I would have had to shut down my business and get a job with benefits. It’s not the perfect solution, but it is a huge step in the right direction, IMHO. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2016, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/f-ck-obmama-and-aca/743020/63 "2016-01-16T15:42:27Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > Republicans always say tort reform is a Bad Thing. That’s because Republicans don’t want to go lo-cal and gluten-free. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2016, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/f-ck-obmama-and-aca/743020/64 "2016-01-16T15:56:14Z")
Tort reform just means that if your doctor screws up, it’s your problem, not his. No, thank you. If my doctor commits malpractice, I want the courts to be able to force him to make it right, because he’s not going to do it on his own. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Krupe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ebca7d/32.png) [@Leo\_Krupe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Krupe)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2016, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/f-ck-obmama-and-aca/743020/65 "2016-01-16T16:04:00Z")
> [@Brynda](#): > > And I’ll be looking for yours for the schools I subsidized for your kids. It’s the way civilized societies work. We all pay in for shared services, even when we personally don’t use them. > > I have benefitted greatly. I pay in (a lot, because of my age) and don’t qualify for assistance. I am self-employed and have pre-existing conditions, so without the ACA, I would have had to shut down my business and get a job with benefits. It’s not the perfect solution, but it is a huge step in the right direction, IMHO. You beat me to it. My response was going to be along the same lines of the schools. I’ve heard people say, “I don’t have kids, why should I pay taxes for schools?” That, to me, is among the most naive arguments you can possibly have. I haven’t called the police, fire department, or any other emergency service for years. Why am I paying for services I don’t use? I haven’t submitted a claim on my homeowners or car insurance for years, yet my premiums go up. Why is that? It’s not fair, dammit! That’s called living in a civilized society. We share the expense and the benefits. Obviously, not equally, but if it were equal, that would be utopia, and we all know that’s not going to exist. So we deal with it the best we can, and help each other out. In this case, those who can help subsidize those who can’t. That, to me, is an important part of civilization. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2016, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/f-ck-obmama-and-aca/743020/66 "2016-01-16T16:14:23Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > I won’t thank you, but I will congratulate you on your good fortune in not having any health issues or accidents that resulted in large claims on your insurance. the thank you goes to the people who got fucked over because of the subsidy program. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2016, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/f-ck-obmama-and-aca/743020/67 "2016-01-16T16:21:15Z")
> [@Leo\_Krupe](#): > > That’s called living in a civilized society. We share the expense and the benefits. Obviously, not equally, but if it were equal, that would be utopia, and we all know that’s not going to exist. So we deal with it the best we can, and help each other out. > > In this case, those who can help subsidize those who can’t. That, to me, is an important part of civilization. Living in a civilized society doesn’t mean lying to people about costs going down and then crippling them with higher rates. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2016, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/f-ck-obmama-and-aca/743020/68 "2016-01-16T16:21:40Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > the thank you goes to the people who got fucked over because of the subsidy program. If their claims exceed their premiums, they should thank all those whose did not. Because insurance is all about winners and losers. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2016, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/f-ck-obmama-and-aca/743020/69 "2016-01-16T16:40:36Z")
> [@kopek](#): > > 2)Tort reform is where the best savings are for everyone. I started a thread on tort reform awhile ago and most of the responses indicated the savings would be minimal. I never did get an answer as to what the average pain and suffering award would be in the US, compared to the cap in p&s in Canada (roughly $300.000). [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=18849369](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=18849369) ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2016, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/f-ck-obmama-and-aca/743020/70 "2016-01-16T16:58:44Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > If their claims exceed their premiums, they should thank all those whose did not. Because insurance is all about winners and losers. Not what I was referring to. This program was an extension of welfare but the tax went to people paying insurance. Welfare is not insurance. Those actually paying for their insurance got screwed. AGAIN, Obama [repeatedly](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_o65vMUk5so)said insurance rates would go down. There is absolutely no way to spin what he said. It wasn’t a slip of the tongue. He said it over and over again. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Krupe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ebca7d/32.png) [@Leo\_Krupe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Krupe)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2016, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/f-ck-obmama-and-aca/743020/71 "2016-01-16T17:26:30Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Living in a civilized society doesn’t mean lying to people about costs going down and then crippling them with higher rates. Then we’ve never lived in a civilized society, because private companies have done that for years. Example of food product labeling, when the size of the product goes down, but the price stays the same, and the label touts that the manufacturer didn’t raise the price. But in fact, they did, because we’re getting less product for the same price. Look, no one said Obamacare’s perfect. Even Obama admits that. But it sure as hell has advantages that the previous version of healthcare in the US didn’t. I named two (and I’m sure there are others): my daughter was able to benefit until she turned 26, and you can’t be turned down for pre-existing conditions. That right there makes it worth it as far as I’m concerned. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2016, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/f-ck-obmama-and-aca/743020/72 "2016-01-16T17:33:40Z")
> [@Leo\_Krupe](#): > > Look, no one said Obamacare’s perfect. Even Obama admits that. But it sure as hell has advantages that the previous version of healthcare in the US didn’t. I named two (and I’m sure there are others): my daughter was able to benefit until she turned 26, and you can’t be turned down for pre-existing conditions. > > That right there makes it worth it as far as I’m concerned. No, we’re not saying it’s perfect. We’re saying it’s a bullshit lie that hurt more people than it helped. Everything that happened was predicted ahead of time. If a corporation committed this fraud they would have been prosecuted. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2016, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/f-ck-obmama-and-aca/743020/73 "2016-01-16T17:44:09Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > If a corporation committed this fraud they would have been prosecuted. No, it wouldn’t. [But, as yet, there have been no criminal convictions of high-level corporate officials directly linked to the practice.](https://www.dcbar.org/bar-resources/publications/washington-lawyer/articles/may-2014-recession.cfm) ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2016, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/f-ck-obmama-and-aca/743020/74 "2016-01-16T18:03:06Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > No, it wouldn’t. [But, as yet, there have been no criminal convictions of high-level corporate officials directly linked to the practice.](https://www.dcbar.org/bar-resources/publications/washington-lawyer/articles/may-2014-recession.cfm) Derivatives were a Congressionally approved financial instrument. They were told by whistle blowers that it was a house of cards and did nothing about it. ---
**Author:** ![Athena](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/35a633/32.png) [@Athena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Athena)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2016, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/f-ck-obmama-and-aca/743020/75 "2016-01-16T19:42:35Z")
> [@control-z](#): > > I’ve been pretty much screwed over by the ACA. Healthy, 40s male, lower middle class. Premiums were $75 per month before ACA, then $125, then $180, then $216, now for this year they want $280. I guess I fall into some category that makes me subsidize others. I said this upthread, but I’ll say it again since it’s a common misconception. Health Insurance policies have started low and go up exponentially every year long before the ACA came into being. Be disappointed that the ACA didn’t fix that, but don’t blame the ACA for causing it. It’s been that way for a long, long time. ---
**Author:** ![pidgeon92](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/50afbb/32.png) [@pidgeon92](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pidgeon92)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2016, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/f-ck-obmama-and-aca/743020/76 "2016-01-16T19:55:44Z")
> [@Athena](#): > > I said this upthread, but I’ll say it again since it’s a common misconception. Health Insurance policies have started low and go up exponentially every year long before the ACA came into being. Be disappointed that the ACA didn’t fix that, but don’t blame the ACA for causing it. It’s been that way for a long, long time. Amen. Mine has been going up 10-30% every year for the 20+ years I’ve been paying for health insurance. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2016, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/f-ck-obmama-and-aca/743020/77 "2016-01-16T22:02:07Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Derivatives were a Congressionally approved financial instrument. They were told by whistle blowers that it was a house of cards and did nothing about it. Do you mean “derivatives” or do you mean “mortgage-backed securities”? In either case, do you have a cite that these were “Congressionally approved”? But anyway, it wasn’t the mere writing of financial instruments, however inappropriate, that should have led to imprisonment. It was _criminal misrepresentations_, of which there were many, that should have led to imprisonments. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2016, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/f-ck-obmama-and-aca/743020/78 "2016-01-16T22:02:21Z")
> [@Athena](#): > > I said this upthread, but I’ll say it again since it’s a common misconception. Health Insurance policies have started low and go up exponentially every year long before the ACA came into being. Be disappointed that the ACA didn’t fix that, but don’t blame the ACA for causing it. It’s been that way for a long, long time. Obama repeatedly repeatedly promised it would go down. All the extra people paying into it would reduce expensive emergency room visits. Taxes on health equipment would kick in…etc. My insurance went up at a higher rate after it was passed. So your premise is wrong. And before anyone says theirs went down that doesn’t include the subsidy you got. That is not a decrease in premium. That’s a hand out. ---
**Author:** ![mbh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a6a055/32.png) [@mbh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mbh)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2016, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/f-ck-obmama-and-aca/743020/79 "2016-01-16T23:16:02Z")
ACA subsidizes demand. It does nothing for supply. Any freshman-level economics textbook can tell you, that raises prices. ACA plays 3-card Monte with the bills, trying to shift the burden away from some classes of people, and onto other classes of people. That works, in the short run. However, big-picture, long-term, ACA exerts upward pressure on prices. ---
**Author:** ![OldGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/3bc359/32.png) [@OldGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldGuy)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2016, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/f-ck-obmama-and-aca/743020/80 "2016-01-16T23:21:15Z")
> [@mbh](#): > > Back when I had no insurance at all, a visit to a general practitioner at the local poverty clinic cost me $50. > > Now that my employer provides ACA-compliant insurance, the same trip to the same doctor is $250. Insurance pays $70, I pay $180. (Plus the $16 deducted from my paycheck every week.) > > I have yet to use any service that was not available to me before. My out-of-pocket expenses have more than tripled. > > So far, the ACA has cost me more than it has benefited me. You know what? Your life insurance, if you have any, has never paid you any benefits back either. Insurance is supposed to cost you a constant small amount to cover you when you have very large expenses like cancer. If you’re very lucky, you’ll never get back what you pay for health insurance. Tell you what, I’ll make your payments if you take my cancer. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/f-ck-obmama-and-aca/743020.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/f-ck-obmama-and-aca/743020.md?page=5)