# F\*ck the "long American tradition of armed resistance to intrusive government" **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 29, 2009, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/f-ck-the-long-american-tradition-of-armed-resistance-to-intrusive-government/522859 "2009-12-29T00:23:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Mr.Krebbs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5fc32e/32.png) [@Mr.Krebbs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Krebbs)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2009, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/f-ck-the-long-american-tradition-of-armed-resistance-to-intrusive-government/522859/21 "2009-12-29T04:56:57Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Can democracy work any other way?! Honestly, the point was that democracy doesn’t work. This is not to say I have a better option, except anarchy, which has some pretty unpleasant implications for industrial civilization. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Baldy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e9c0ed/32.png) [@Gary\_Baldy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Baldy)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2009, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/f-ck-the-long-american-tradition-of-armed-resistance-to-intrusive-government/522859/22 "2009-12-29T05:00:19Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > I don’t think America has any “long tradition of armed resistance to intrusive government”. I can’t think of any such resistance off the top of my head, and I’m not exactly the kind of guy who knows nothing about history. Wait, I can think of one thing, the Whiskey Rebellion, which happened over 200 years ago. Yes, that’s a very “long tradition of armed resistance to intrusive government.” Hmm. I seem to remember hearing about some “armed resistance to intrusive government” by groups in the 1970s. I seem to remember the Days of Rage and Fred Hampton’s death being the “trigger” for the Weathermen and Black Liberation Army to commit to an armed uprising against the US government. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2009, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/f-ck-the-long-american-tradition-of-armed-resistance-to-intrusive-government/522859/23 "2009-12-29T05:08:40Z")
> [@Gary\_Baldy](#): > > Hmm. I seem to remember hearing about some “armed resistance to intrusive government” by groups in the 1970s. I seem to remember the Days of Rage and Fred Hampton’s death being the “trigger” for the Weathermen and Black Liberation Army to commit to an armed uprising against the US government. And how’d that work out for them? Stranger ---
**Author:** ![lurking\_guest](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/2acd7d/32.png) [@lurking\_guest](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lurking_guest)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2009, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/f-ck-the-long-american-tradition-of-armed-resistance-to-intrusive-government/522859/24 "2009-12-29T05:11:49Z")
Ahh…you may might to reassure Mitch McConnell that Revolution may NOT be necessary… (The stupid prig.) All folks want…regular Americans who go to work in offices and factories and phone companies and utility companies and the garbage men and the truck drivers who deliver groceries across the country…is to CONVINCE them that they MATTER. Of course, WALL STREET doesn’t think so. And therein is their destruction. Try to live without the “Common Man” and you are doomed. Go get your boats, your houses, your bonuses, your garbage picked up, your lawns taken care of, your politicians paid off, your political rants believed without the “Common Man”… and you are doomed. Stack your money against the rage. Who will win? We’ll see. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2009, 5:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/f-ck-the-long-american-tradition-of-armed-resistance-to-intrusive-government/522859/25 "2009-12-29T05:16:53Z")
> [@Mr.Krebbs](#): > > Honestly, the point was that democracy doesn’t work. Your point **seemed** to be that democracy **shouldn’t** work. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2009, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/f-ck-the-long-american-tradition-of-armed-resistance-to-intrusive-government/522859/26 "2009-12-29T05:33:57Z")
I don’t think “armed resistance” necessarily means the _use_ of those arms, so much as the potential threat of them, and a proclaimed willingness to resort to them if pressed too hard. The Klan is an example, though it might be argued in some areas of the south it was more an extra-legal branch of government than a resistance to it. Another example that comes to mind are the Black Panthers. And of couse several whackjob fringe groups like the Symbionese Liberation Army and MOVE. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2009, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/f-ck-the-long-american-tradition-of-armed-resistance-to-intrusive-government/522859/27 "2009-12-29T05:36:05Z")
> [@lurking\_guest](#): > > Stack your money against the rage. > > Who will win? > > We’ll see. “But – and I’m only saying this because I care – there are a lot of decaffeinated brands on the market that are just as tasty as the real thing.” Stranger ---
**Author:** ![lurking\_guest](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/2acd7d/32.png) [@lurking\_guest](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lurking_guest)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2009, 5:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/f-ck-the-long-american-tradition-of-armed-resistance-to-intrusive-government/522859/28 "2009-12-29T05:47:51Z")
Aw Stranger…my mellow friend… In the next decade you may prevail…( though I think ten years gives you too much latitude… I would love to have the world come back to Sunshine…who wouldn’t? ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2009, 5:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/f-ck-the-long-american-tradition-of-armed-resistance-to-intrusive-government/522859/29 "2009-12-29T05:49:26Z")
I prefer clouds, personally. To paraphrase…‘Ok GOD! LET ME HAVE IT!!!’ -XT ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2009, 6:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/f-ck-the-long-american-tradition-of-armed-resistance-to-intrusive-government/522859/30 "2009-12-29T06:01:31Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > I’m actually responding to the author of the _Reason_ article **furt** cited, and this Churchill whom the _Reason_ article cited, both of whom seem to be arguing for the **legitimacy** of “armed resistance to intrusive government” – and implicitly connecting that position with the “insurrectionary theory of the Second Amendment.” No. He’s just offering an alternative interpretation that says the movement isn’t anything new, and countering the idea that people like Rush Limbaugh and Glen Beck are responsible for any right wing violence that pops up. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2009, 6:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/f-ck-the-long-american-tradition-of-armed-resistance-to-intrusive-government/522859/31 "2009-12-29T06:05:37Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > And of couse several whackjob fringe groups like the Symbionese Liberation Army and MOVE. Okay, seriously? The SLA was a political movement in name only, run by a felon (the self-styled “General Field Marshal Cinque”, real name Donald DeFreeze) whose previous conviction was armed robbery of a prostitute, and for which the general purpose was to rob banks and bang upper-middle class girls rebelling against a traditional upbringing. The SLA isn’t any kind of tradition of armed resistance except in the sense of being a bunch of incompetent, booger-eating criminals. MOVE is a few notches higher on the crazy stick, a sort of agglomeration of all the nuttiness to be found in nature from radical animal rights to anti-consumerism to a strange sort of bizzare, evolutionarily-derived black nationalism; all they lack are self-castration and some kind of alien overlord tie-in. The only actual armed exchanges they were ever involved in was the 1978 shooting of a police officer in West Philadelphia who had entered the house because of public nuisance complaints, and a 1985 standoff in which the city of Philadelphia exploded a bomb on the roof of the house intending to breach the exterior only to set off an uncontrolled fire that burned down the block. These aren’t examples of “an American tradition of armed resistance to intrusive goverment,” these are nutjobs and criminals on parade. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2009, 6:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/f-ck-the-long-american-tradition-of-armed-resistance-to-intrusive-government/522859/32 "2009-12-29T06:12:01Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > …These aren’t examples of “an American tradition of armed resistance to intrusive goverment,” these are nutjobs and criminals on parade. > > Stranger Seriously. I believe the “American tradition of armed resistance to intrusive goverment” IS, by and large, a tradition of “nutjobs and criminals on parade.” ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2009, 6:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/f-ck-the-long-american-tradition-of-armed-resistance-to-intrusive-government/522859/33 "2009-12-29T06:22:19Z")
That’s what happens when you lose. Win, and you’re the Sons of Liberty. ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2009, 6:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/f-ck-the-long-american-tradition-of-armed-resistance-to-intrusive-government/522859/34 "2009-12-29T06:27:56Z")
> [@lurking\_guest](#): > > C’mon… it is really very simple. > > There are folks who BELIEVE that all poor people are POOR because they are LAZY. > > And then, there are folks who BELIEVE that people are poor because of childhood circumstances; because of brain chemistry; because of cultural differences. > > No matter. > > All things seem to be judged by what cohort DRAW the most Money. > > That would be… Wall Street…Politicians…Perhaps Religious Leaders…Heads of State… > > Oh… and that would NOT be …Families…Parents…Schools…Communities… > > (Those damned, neophyte, STUDPID people.) > > Obama. > Mitch McConnel > Tim Geithner > Alan Greenspan > George Bush > Tim Geitner > Larry Summers > Ben Bernanke > Bill Clinton > Hillary Clinton > Alan Greenspan > > Let us include those “in the know” from every single government on the face of the Earth. > > As Frederick Douglas once said, no one with Money or Power will ever give up Power or Money or Privilege without a FIGHT. > > And, right now…across the globe… those with the most assets are determining the governments of the entire globe. > > The Laws. The Legislatures. > > No matter their philosophies nor governments. > > $$$$$$ Money $$$$$ > > It matters NOT who made it. Only who HAS it. > > REPUBLICANS or DEMOCRATS in the UNITED STATES? > > A joke. > > America’s politics? > > A joke. > > The REAL promulagters of power have, and have had, power through the ages. > > Through great wealth and influence. > > They laugh at the “Masses.” > > The jerks who pick up garbage. > > Who work in factories. (Across the world.) > > Who stand at “Attendance” at high-end hotels and motels across the world. > > Who subserviantly serve on educational boards at local schools. > > Ha! > > Does THIS matter to people whom three or four or five homes exist across the globe? > > Who have boats sitting at moorings which bring millions to those buisnesses? > > Money. > > It seems. > > Matters more than anything. > > Really. > > Really? > > Perhaps we should give up care for every other human being on earth to those human beings whose goal is to make money and have have bigger and better “things.” > > THINGS. POWER. INFLUENCE. MONEY. > > THESE things matter more than THE GOOD of MANKIND… > > Here we are. > > BUT…we can fix it. > > OBAMA is NOT the answer. > > Conscience is. > > We have almost a year in our political system to try again. > > Let’s try again… Did you really need to type out your post this way? ---
**Author:** ![lurking\_guest](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/2acd7d/32.png) [@lurking\_guest](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lurking_guest)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2009, 6:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/f-ck-the-long-american-tradition-of-armed-resistance-to-intrusive-government/522859/35 "2009-12-29T06:30:51Z")
Lions and Tigers and Bears… Oh, MY !!! Shisters! Oh. My. God. Religionists or not. (And ‘Yes’ I AM a Believer…) Do the People KNOW what an Oligarchy IS?? Not just the People of the United States? Jebus Cripes… We are DOOMED… We “Middle Class” people if we don’t know what the difference is between CREATING wealth and SUCKING wealth out of the System. Those “Credit Default Swaps” fellas… Awwww …“Honey Moon” stuff… He he…Millions… Billions… And THEN… THE AMERICAN GOVERNMENT BACKED THEM UP !!! From Clinton to Bush to Bush to Obama…these “Leaders” backed them UP!!! Hey… something ‘fishy’…these guys… Do ‘they’ know something ‘we’ don’t know?.. Ya. “They” do. Those with MONEY. Those with POWER. In every GOVERNMENT. On every CONTINENT. KNOW one another. Agree with one another. WE, you see, are EXPENDABLE. As in the days of SERFS. We poor billions exist to make life easier for our “betters.” The Bernie Madoffs and the crack distributors are different how? Bernie has the sanction of the New York Stock Exchange, etc. … …and failed. The “crack distributors” The “ponzie distributors”…get treated differently. Financial scuzzballs (who kill healthcare -mortgage-democratic reforms) get asked to “Die” become different than those who say… “All those who hold Billions and Trillions in Wealth across the Globe are spiritually and morally Superior…” are STUPID. ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2009, 6:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/f-ck-the-long-american-tradition-of-armed-resistance-to-intrusive-government/522859/36 "2009-12-29T06:51:08Z")
Lots of white space…“full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.” ---
**Author:** ![lurking\_guest](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/2acd7d/32.png) [@lurking\_guest](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lurking_guest)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2009, 6:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/f-ck-the-long-american-tradition-of-armed-resistance-to-intrusive-government/522859/37 "2009-12-29T06:52:32Z")
Aww. . c’mon… In this country… The UPPER MIDDLE CLASS is what keeps this whole CHARADE going. Good times. And they really, really, REALLY believe that THEY can have the SAME wealth as the TOP 1%. That’s why they hate the ‘poor’…as they are told. That’s why they believe every poor person is “lazy.” They BELIVE it. They KNOW that “poor people”, “lazy people”…COST them in TAXES. Ahh, if only…if ONLY…every solid citizen of the United States knew what it costs THEM to support the wealth of individuals and corporations and politicians…and what they contribute to the Global Economy…(along with every other ‘serf’ in the world…) ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2009, 6:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/f-ck-the-long-american-tradition-of-armed-resistance-to-intrusive-government/522859/38 "2009-12-29T06:57:05Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > Well, there was this little disagreement called the American Civil War, but it did happen almost a century and a half ago. And that didn’t count as the South had most of the Regulars on it’s side. In any case, I can’t see where (after 1776 and all that) any “armed resistance” actually worked in the USA where it did any good at all to further freedom and democracy. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2009, 7:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/f-ck-the-long-american-tradition-of-armed-resistance-to-intrusive-government/522859/39 "2009-12-29T07:08:38Z")
**lurking guest** , please stick to the subject. So far, nothing you have posted appears to be related to the topic of this thread. You might want to start your own thread. ---
**Author:** ![lurking\_guest](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/2acd7d/32.png) [@lurking\_guest](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lurking_guest)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2009, 7:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/f-ck-the-long-american-tradition-of-armed-resistance-to-intrusive-government/522859/40 "2009-12-29T07:20:09Z")
“Full of Sound and Fury signifying nothing.” ARE YOU KIDDING!! We have been screwed by Clinton and Bush and Oboma… and you STILL keep grinding for a “Republican” or “Democratic” answer? JEBUS! DON’T stick with a “Party” moniker. Vote, work for, keep on trying for the will of your fellow man. CHRIST has your “fellow man” been sold out for Democracy vs. Socialism. Democracy. Individualism. I work hard. I want to be an entrepenuar. I want to make millions. Billions. Do I want to hurt others in the process? Should I? Could I? Would it be favorable to ME to go ahead and do so? I KNOW I can. But then after I succeed I can give back. But there’s so much $$$$$$. I can have the two-million dollar house, and the hot-tub and the private school for my children and the expensive cars, and the beautiful grounds and the flowers and …wait…rock gardens…and the pretty big boat… WHY should THESE folks think anything else except that they can go into the next sphere of wealth? And that is what they believe. And perhaps they can get into the top 80%? And IF you’re there…you are probably deciding things in other countries… Isn’t wealth …well…extraordinary! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/f-ck-the-long-american-tradition-of-armed-resistance-to-intrusive-government/522859.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/f-ck-the-long-american-tradition-of-armed-resistance-to-intrusive-government/522859.md?page=3)