# F\*\*\* 'em if they can't take a joke. **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 17, 2005, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/f-em-if-they-cant-take-a-joke/304278 "2005-05-17T18:27:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2005, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/f-em-if-they-cant-take-a-joke/304278/1 "2005-05-17T18:27:44Z")
I’m hoping someone can tell me the origin of this quote, because I can’t remember where I first heard it. And, no, it’s not Broken Arrow with John Travolta. I belive it was before that, but, as I said, I can’t remember. ---
**Author:** ![Cliffy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/59ef9b/32.png) [@Cliffy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cliffy)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2005, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/f-em-if-they-cant-take-a-joke/304278/2 "2005-05-17T18:38:49Z")
My dad’s been saying it since John Travolta was famous the first time. It’s just a saying. –Cliffy ---
**Author:** ![vibrotronica](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/a9a28c/32.png) [@vibrotronica](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vibrotronica)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2005, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/f-em-if-they-cant-take-a-joke/304278/3 "2005-05-17T19:00:35Z")
Well, it’s the motto of the Church of the SubGenius, dating back at least to page 3 of [SubGenius Pamphlet #1](http://www.subgenius.com/pam1/pamphlet_p3.html), which I believe was first published in 1979. (Wikipedia claims 1980, official Church doctrine is that “Bob” founded the Church in 1953, but official Church doctrine, in accordance with official Church doctrine, is full of shit.) It was also the name of the Dictators’ live album in 1981. Both of those data points indicate a late-70’s origin, but I wouldn’t be surprised if the phrase originated with the Yippies or some other 60’s countercultural source. ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2005, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/f-em-if-they-cant-take-a-joke/304278/4 "2005-05-17T19:02:07Z")
Bette Midler says it in her 1976 _Live at Last_ album, and I’m sure it wasn’t original to her. ---
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2005, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/f-em-if-they-cant-take-a-joke/304278/5 "2005-05-17T19:09:22Z")
FWIW, this is a later cite, but for an earlier (and possibly more popular) film reference than Broken Arrow – I know it was used in 1983’s _The Big Chill_, spoken by either Harold (Kevin Kline) or Sam (Tom Berenger). ---
**Author:** ![cornflakes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9d8465/32.png) [@cornflakes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cornflakes)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2005, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/f-em-if-they-cant-take-a-joke/304278/6 "2005-05-17T21:33:21Z")
We were saying “Joke 'em if they can’t take a fuck.” back in the early 1980s; it was an old saying by then. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_T](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Gary\_T](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_T)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2005, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/f-em-if-they-cant-take-a-joke/304278/7 "2005-05-17T22:03:38Z")
I was hearing it regularly in 1969. Lord knows how old it was at that point. It’s not like it’s a new sentiment that was suddenly introduced to humankind. ---
**Author:** ![Busy\_Scissors](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/d78d45/32.png) [@Busy\_Scissors](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Busy_Scissors)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2005, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/f-em-if-they-cant-take-a-joke/304278/8 "2005-05-17T22:25:40Z")
I’ve heard it attributed to Lenny Bruce. When was he around, the 60s? ---
**Author:** ![CynicalGabe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3e96dc/32.png) [@CynicalGabe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CynicalGabe)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2005, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/f-em-if-they-cant-take-a-joke/304278/9 "2005-05-17T22:35:55Z")
> [@Myler Keogh](#): > > I’ve heard it attributed to Lenny Bruce. When was he around, the 60s? I think people tend to attribute just about anything to Lenny Bruce. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2005, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/f-em-if-they-cant-take-a-joke/304278/10 "2005-05-17T22:40:29Z")
> [@CynicalGabe](#): > > I think people tend to attribute just about anything to Lenny Bruce. 😉 He invented the internet. Once. In 1960. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2005, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/f-em-if-they-cant-take-a-joke/304278/11 "2005-05-17T22:41:54Z")
Is this actually a saying? In the area I grew up, this sounds like anything any other guy might come up with if he was in a bad mood. ---
**Author:** ![LouisB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/dfb087/32.png) [@LouisB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LouisB)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2005, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/f-em-if-they-cant-take-a-joke/304278/12 "2005-05-17T23:59:52Z")
We said it back in the 1950s and most likely learned it from someone who heard it in the 1940s. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2005, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/f-em-if-they-cant-take-a-joke/304278/13 "2005-05-18T01:39:47Z")
The first time I heard it was in the mid-60s, and I think it had something to do with Vietnam casualties. But \*\*LouisB \*\*is probably right. ---
**Author:** ![postcards](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8e8cbc/32.png) [@postcards](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/postcards)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2005, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/f-em-if-they-cant-take-a-joke/304278/14 "2005-05-18T01:56:50Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally Posted by CynicalGabe > I think people tend to attribute just about anything to Lenny Bruce. > [@NoClueBoy](#): > > He invented the internet. Once. In 1960. But it was only up for twenty minutes. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Fight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/90ced4/32.png) [@Cat\_Fight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Fight)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2005, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/f-em-if-they-cant-take-a-joke/304278/15 "2005-05-18T02:04:57Z")
Another instance (obviously not the first): JD said it in _Heathers_, “Fuck 'em if they can’t take a joke, officer.” ---
**Author:** ![CynicalGabe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3e96dc/32.png) [@CynicalGabe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CynicalGabe)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2005, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/f-em-if-they-cant-take-a-joke/304278/16 "2005-05-18T02:29:18Z")
> [@postcards](#): > > But it was only up for twenty minutes. I shall forever curse your name for beating me to that one. ---
**Author:** ![Cliffy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/59ef9b/32.png) [@Cliffy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cliffy)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2005, 12:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/f-em-if-they-cant-take-a-joke/304278/17 "2005-05-18T12:16:05Z")
> [@Myler Keogh](#): > > I’ve heard it attributed to Lenny Bruce. When was he around, the 60s? He started to become famous in the late 1950’s and was a cause celebre in the early '60’s. His obscenity trial for saying [blah-blah-blah] was in 1962. It does sound like something Bruce would say. –Cliffy ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2005, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/f-em-if-they-cant-take-a-joke/304278/18 "2005-05-18T14:58:00Z")
Thanks for all the replies, guys. I’m surprised it apparently has been around for so long. I still can’t quite put my finger on where I remember hearing it from, but thanks (it may have been Heathers, thanks CatFight) ---
**Author:** ![Civil\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d78d45/32.png) [@Civil\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Civil_Guy)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2005, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/f-em-if-they-cant-take-a-joke/304278/19 "2005-05-19T03:50:55Z")
[Sheer speculation, barely remembered] I thought the original source (no cite) was from some battlefield or other (Vietnam? Korea?), an extremely bitter response to a report of friendly fire. [/Sheer speculation] ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2005, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/f-em-if-they-cant-take-a-joke/304278/20 "2005-05-19T04:13:31Z")
I agree as to a probable military origin. I never heard it said in line with a ‘Blue on Blue’ incident, only when talking about Those People (the enemy). Absolutely no evidence however. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/f-em-if-they-cant-take-a-joke/304278.md?page=2)