# F&SF: the fencing master **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 11, 2013, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/f-sf-the-fencing-master/665926 "2013-08-11T04:58:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![NoCoolUserName](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5fc32e/32.png) [@NoCoolUserName](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NoCoolUserName)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2013, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/f-sf-the-fencing-master/665926/1 "2013-08-11T04:58:50Z")
Warning: Spoilers for various Fantasy & Science Fiction (depending on where you draw the line) series! Have been watching Game of Thrones, Season 1, on DVD. Got to the scene where the bad guys burst in to take the little girl away during her fencing lesson. The fencing master, with wooden practice sword, takes down several of the bad guys. Sends the girl away and faces (with only the stub of the wooden sword) the top bad guy who is armed with big, real, steel sword. Question: has their ever been a bad-guy/scum-o fencing master in all of Fantasy & Science Fiction? The only other fencing master that comes to mind immediately is in Dune, when Paul is “not in the mood” and wonders if his fencing master, who attacks with vigor, is the traitor they have been warned about. ---
**Author:** ![Cuckoorex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ad7895/32.png) [@Cuckoorex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cuckoorex)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2013, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/f-sf-the-fencing-master/665926/2 "2013-08-11T12:52:48Z")
Wasn’t there a bad guy fencing master or two in the James Bond flick “Die Another Day?” I know it’s not really Fantasy/SciFi, but it’s all I got. There are other fencing type fights in F/SF like in The Princess Bride, though the big fencing scene is between two “good guys”, so that would probably not count for what you’re looking for. Hopefully someone else will come up with something better; I’m interested in the answer, too. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2013, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/f-sf-the-fencing-master/665926/3 "2013-08-11T13:01:21Z")
> [@NoCoolUserName](#): > > Warning: Spoilers for various Fantasy & Science Fiction (depending on where you draw the line) series! > > Have been watching Game of Thrones, Season 1, on DVD. Got to the scene where the bad guys burst in to take the little girl away during her fencing lesson. The fencing master, with wooden practice sword, takes down several of the bad guys. Sends the girl away and faces (with only the stub of the wooden sword) the top bad guy who is armed with big, real, steel sword. > > Question: has their ever been a bad-guy/scum-o fencing master in all of Fantasy & Science Fiction? > > The only other fencing master that comes to mind immediately is in Dune, when Paul is “not in the mood” and wonders if his fencing master, who attacks with vigor, is the traitor they have been warned about. That’s Gurney Halleck (played, in the David Lynch film, by a pre-STNG Patrick Stewart). He’s the first one that came to mind for me as well. I don’t doubt that there have been others, but I can’t think of any right now. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2013, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/f-sf-the-fencing-master/665926/4 "2013-08-11T13:16:39Z")
> [@Cuckoorex](#): > > The Princess Bride, though the big fencing scene is between two “good guys”, so that would probably not count for what you’re looking for. Well, no. At that point in the film Inigo is working for Vizzini on an evil scheme, so he’s not exactly a good guy. ---
**Author:** ![coffeecat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/coffeecat/32/3405_2.png) [@coffeecat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coffeecat)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2013, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/f-sf-the-fencing-master/665926/5 "2013-08-11T13:27:15Z")
In Heinlein’s _Glory Road_, the guy in the alternate universe (the Eater of Souls?) who was defending Her Wisdom’s stolen wisdom repository. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2013, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/f-sf-the-fencing-master/665926/6 "2013-08-11T13:30:32Z")
> [@Cuckoorex](#): > > Wasn’t there a bad guy fencing master or two in the James Bond flick “Die Another Day?” Gustav Graves was a fencer, and Miranda Frost was an Olympic champion fencer. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2013, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/f-sf-the-fencing-master/665926/7 "2013-08-11T14:39:02Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > Gustav Graves was a fencer, and Miranda Frost was an Olympic champion fencer. Note that Frost would’ve only been a silver medalist, but Graves arranged for the rightful Olympic champ to overdose on steroids. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2013, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/f-sf-the-fencing-master/665926/8 "2013-08-11T14:41:48Z")
In Bill Willingham’s _[Fables](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fables_(comics))_ series, Bluebeard was a fencing master. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2013, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/f-sf-the-fencing-master/665926/9 "2013-08-11T15:16:11Z")
Long before DUNE, the _forcefield-that-stops-fast-projectiles-but-can-be-pierced-with-a-slow-enough-thrust_ schtick for our scrappy heroes already gave rise to the dickish Thurmond in FLIGHT INTO YESTERDAY/PARADOX MEN. (How dickish? He not only purchases slaves for the sole purpose of fencing 'em to death in his private gymnasium, but delights in doing so by “touching each of the six sections into which a fencer’s body is arbitrarily divided – a demonstration that he could kill the other at will.”) When he finally confronts the protagonist, we’re told that our hero’s _“sword leapt arrow-like in an incredibly complex body feint. But his quasi-thrust was parried by a noncommittal quasi-riposte, almost philosophical in its ambiguity. Its studied indefiniteness of statement showed that Thurmond realized to the uttermost his paramount position – that a perfect defense would win without risk.”_ ---
**Author:** ![Zakalwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zakalwe/32/270_2.png) [@Zakalwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zakalwe)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2013, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/f-sf-the-fencing-master/665926/10 "2013-08-11T15:24:30Z")
Actually, in _The Princess Bride_, I would argue that Count Rugen qualifies per the OP. After all, he damn near beats Vizzini (and severely wounds him), who has been presented as the 2nd best fencer in the movie. ---
**Author:** ![Cuckoorex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ad7895/32.png) [@Cuckoorex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cuckoorex)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2013, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/f-sf-the-fencing-master/665926/11 "2013-08-11T16:24:46Z")
> [@Zakalwe](#): > > Actually, in _The Princess Bride_, I would argue that Count Rugen qualifies per the OP. After all, he damn near beats Vizzini (and severely wounds him), who has been presented as the 2nd best fencer in the movie. Good point. (except it’s Inigo Montoya, not Vizzini that he beats.) ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2013, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/f-sf-the-fencing-master/665926/12 "2013-08-11T16:50:16Z")
Count Rugen doesn’t get a single touch in with his sword against the adult Inigo. The near-mortal blow was from a thrown dagger. How about the guy Indy shot in _Raiders of the Lost Ark_? ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2013, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/f-sf-the-fencing-master/665926/13 "2013-08-11T17:50:40Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Count Rugen doesn’t get a single touch in with his sword against the adult Inigo. The near-mortal blow was from a thrown dagger. Not correct. Count Rugan pierces Inigo through both arms, wounds (along with the facial cuts from when he was a child and the dagger to the stomach) which are returned by Inigo by the end of the fight. ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2013, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/f-sf-the-fencing-master/665926/14 "2013-08-11T17:52:48Z")
[The Familias Regnant](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Familias_Regnant_universe)series by Elizabeth Moon would count. In one of the books one of the enemy polities sends out an assassin in the form of a fencing master, and a murder is committed by someone who rigged a foil point guard to snap off. Though I am not sure you would consider the second what you are looking for. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2013, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/f-sf-the-fencing-master/665926/15 "2013-08-11T17:56:00Z")
How about the rich jerk who duelled Mal on Firefly? ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2013, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/f-sf-the-fencing-master/665926/16 "2013-08-11T18:42:29Z")
Rochefort from the Musketeers book & movies comes to mind. ---
**Author:** ![epbrown01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7ba0ec/32.png) [@epbrown01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/epbrown01)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2013, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/f-sf-the-fencing-master/665926/17 "2013-08-11T21:35:48Z")
> [@NoCoolUserName](#): > > Question: has their ever been a bad-guy/scum-o fencing master in all of Fantasy & Science Fiction? > > The only other fencing master that comes to mind immediately is in Dune, when Paul is “not in the mood” and wonders if his fencing master, who attacks with vigor, is the traitor they have been warned about. So are we talking about a fencing teacher, or just a master of fencing? Some of the replies are confusing. In the awesome 2002 “Count of Monte Cristo,” Dantes frenemy Count Mondego (played by Guy Pearce) was an accomplished fencer and bad guy. ---
**Author:** ![NoCoolUserName](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5fc32e/32.png) [@NoCoolUserName](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NoCoolUserName)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2013, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/f-sf-the-fencing-master/665926/18 "2013-08-12T02:37:35Z")
“Master” as in teacher, not as in “really good at it.” 🙂 It sounds like **aruvqan** might have an example. ---
**Author:** ![TonySinclair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@TonySinclair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TonySinclair)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2013, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/f-sf-the-fencing-master/665926/19 "2013-08-12T05:17:19Z")
I seem to remember one from a _Conan_ short story, but I’m drawing a complete blank on the title, or even the main plot. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2013, 11:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/f-sf-the-fencing-master/665926/20 "2013-08-12T11:50:45Z")
While the fencing instructor in _Mirror Friend, Mirror Foe_ is the protagonist, he’s a criminal-for-hire who gets a lot of innocent people killed while performing industrial espionage and playing saboteur – all in between innocuously giving feint-and-parry lessons, all before ending the novel by amiably playing extortionist. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/f-sf-the-fencing-master/665926.md?page=2)