Presumably this is flooding pleasure zones with the amounts of salt, sugar and fat, not the source. It’s not evidence that getting the fat from corn is worse than getting it from milk.
Also I can’t read the study, but according to reddit (so grain of addictive salt) the definition of “hyperpalatable” means having very high amounts of sugar, carbs in general, salt and/or fat. They could be finding the healthiest fats and this would still be true.
I think some of how people talk about prepackaged foods is hysteria, because a fair amount of what they do is what we do at home, it’s just that when a giant food conglomerate does it it’s described as “engineering food to be addictive” and when my grandma did it it was called dessert.
And with seed oils this particular criticism makes very little sense. Seed oils are both used by nabisco and me. I have a vested interest in knowing if the problem is the seed oil itself, because that would mean I might want to consider subbing when I cook, or if the problem is that the final product is junk food that is essentiall empty calories. Constantly interspersing inflammatory statement about seed oil while backing it up in part by tobacco companies trying to get me hooked on junk food obfuscates this.
Right, they’ve figured out how to extract key ingredients from the natural source and deliver it in a potent dosage. Sort of like what we’ve done with drugs.
And just as morphine is fundamentally more potent than a poppy plant, these targeted ingredients are more potent than natural sources.
With regards to food, the delivery system has a great impact on how the body reacts. That’s why the fructose in whole fruit (which is tempered by fiber) impacts the body differently than high fructose corn syrup.
When grandma bakes a cake, she likely uses butter, not vegetable oil. And she almost certainly uses fresh ingredients, and is not adding laboratory produced chemicals to improve shelf life, taste, or texture.
So forgive me for thinking that her baked goods are different than Sara Lee’s.
Obviously my analogy fell flat.
Let me rephrase: there are companies which have shown an intent to develop products which people crave and overindulge. In so doing, they show that they prioritize price and ease of delivery, even when people’s very health is at stake.
I’m not trying to confuse you with talk of too much sugar and salt, or the lack of the delivery systems which allow the body to use them properly; yes, that is problematic, and deserves its own analysis.
But in this thread, the particular concern is the prevalence of these vegetable oils. We shouldn’t assume that these companies are only using these ingredients because they are benign. It’s easy to say, hey, it comes from nature, and is found in food, so we needn’t worry that people now eat a whole hell of a lot of it, or that it’s been processed first.
But it is pretty clear that obesity rates are higher than in previous generations, and that heart disease is a prime health concern. One might ask why.
Once you start looking for oil as an ingredient, you might be surprised how much is found in our food. And while a person who likes snack foods might be conscientious enough to select low fat, or ‘no sugar added’ versions, they could still be eating a large amount of this stuff.
In this thread, there is some actual science that might explain why that is potentially harmful. It creates a huge imbalance between Omega 6 and Omega 3 fatty acids, which correlates positively with certain health conditions.
Point being, there is a reasonable basis to eschew this type of additive.
And it just so happens that doing so requires one to adopt a diet of basic, single ingredient foods, or recipes made at home with ingredients selected by the consumer. That isn’t an extreme diet in any sense, and adds another reason to merit consideration.
No, I did not. I am not going to continue this discussion with you if you can’t be intellectually honest.
‘Food’ is a description of substances containing nutrients that can be metabolised by an organism for useful energy. Not all natural things are foods (Mecruric sulphide, for example, is naturally-occurring, but definitely not food), and it is quite possible for a synthetic thing to be food (although this is unusual, but, say, synthetic ethanol, for example, could be metabolised).
I argued that just because something is natural doesn’t mean it’s healthy to consume.
Maybe you want to say that calling something food is not the same thing as calling it natural, and you can criticize my sloppy use of language, but I dispute your defense: just because something is found in food, doesn’t mean that it’s good for us.
Please don’t try to put the ‘natural things good’ argument in my mouth just so you can pooh-pooh it.
The point is, seed oils have food value - when you eat them, your body gets energy; they are food. Cigarettes are not. That is a weakness in your analogy.
It is hardly unusual for foods to have beneficial value in some ways and also be problematic in other ways - in fact, it’s probably the norm; many fruits contain vitamins and antioxidants and fibre, but also high levels of simple sugars; red meat contains protein and iron, but high intake of red meat is associated with heart disease and bowel cancer.
There might be a reason why some foods are so significantly tipped in the direction of detrimental effects that we should shun them altogether. Many people suggest that is what should happen with seed oils. I don’t see the evidence supporting such a wholesale rejection.
It doesn’t. There are seed oils like canola oil that have a very high omega 3 content. There are fats like butter that are high in saturated fat (which is AFAIK considered more unhealthy than any kind of unsaturated fat) and besides don’t have enough unsaturated fat to do much to your overall dietary omega 3 or omega 6. It might be valuable on the specific basis of avoiding too many omega-6’s to avoid the seed oils that are very high in them and lower in omega 3’s, but if that’s the main concern it should be the focus, so that I don’t avoid canola oil because “seed oils are bad.”
Not all the food I eat at home is raw or boiled. I’m going to use some sort of derived fat, whether it’s butter, vegetable oil, lard etc to cook. None of those are whole foods (I guess you could argue lard is close but w/e) and all of them are highly palatable calorie bombs in high quantities. Therefore even if I cook everything myself, there’s value in me knowing if I should be worried about the quantity or variety of fat and get accurate information about the variety.
By that standard, candy has food value and is food, since your body gets energy from eating it. That doesn’t tell us anything about whether we should consume it.
When you ingest cigarettes, you also get energy, albeit of a different kind.
But again, this doesn’t tell us anything about whether we should ingest it.
Sure, but that just means we should examine each food item individually, and not just presume that because something has an identifiable benefit that it is a beneficial thing to consume.
I am not advocating for no consumption of vegetable oil. As found in actual vegetables, it’s fine.
And if you want to use it when you oil a pan, knock yourself out. As a cooking ingredient, though, I think substituting animal products are a better choice.
But I also find it, at the very least, an interesting change in the typical western diet over the last half century or more: our ratio of essential fatty acids is far out of whack than it has traditionally been.
I also find it notable how overweight and unhealthy we tend to be, and find the studies about the possible correlation compelling.
That’s fine by me. I personally only advocate for the rejection of processed foods, at least most of the time.
Candy does have food value, and is food. When i had chickenpox, i had pox down my throat and couldn’t swallow most foods. My mother kept me alive with chicken broth and hard candies. That was on doctor’s orders. She said she asked the doctor, “isn’t candy bad for you?”, and he replied, "your children need calories more than anything else, give them candy until they can eat other foods. " (The broth was because i couldn’t drink water, it hurt too much. The salty broth was less painful and i could get it down.)
All foods can be consumed in excess. Some foods are easier to eat excessive amounts of than others, of course. But even pure sugar has its place in a diet.
My emphasis has been on the use of seed oils as an additive in processed food.
It’s not just the issue of omega 6 ratios. Companies which use this oil hydrogenate it to turn it from liquid to solid.
The problem is that this process creates trans fats.
Now, partially hydrogenated oils - which are most notorious for becoming trans fats - was banned in American food beginning last December 22nd. The claim is that full hydrogenation virtually eliminates the trans fats. Some are skeptical about how much remains.
If you are cooking at home, I don’t think you need to worry. It’s ultra processed food that I think raises concerns.
Ok, fine. Let’s just rank them, not eliminate them. I’m advocating for putting some way down low on the list of good choices.
I have to have glucose and sugars occasionally to live.
I could get it with candy. Maybe too slow.
I keep sugar cubes for a mild low.
I have squeeze up stuff and glucose melt aways. Both gross and bother my stomach. They tend to glom up down there.
In serious lows there is a glucagon rescue pen. I hate hate them. Never fails to give me a sick headache.
What is your definition of “food,” then? Only things that we “should” eat?
Things like Chips Ahoy, Doritos, and frozen TV dinners aren’t good for you; I don’t think anyone would argue that they are. But AIUI, food consists of things we can eat and metabolize. Not all food is GOOD food. It’s still food, though.
No, I’m not quibbling about the definition of food. I’m saying that saying that something is food doesn’t tell us whether it’s a good idea to eat it (or, more precisely, it doesn’t tell us anything about how much we should consume, or in what form: high fructose corn syrup comes from corn, for example. It’s still not good for us, and should be consumed sparingly).
This thread is digging into why that is. That’s all I’m saying: when you eat junk food, these seed oils are a big reason why they are unhealthy.
When I saw seed oil, it triggered my thoughts regarding that particular nutrition issue.
It is absolutely true that there is extremism online that is overstated. But the nutrition information is interesting to me; I think the science has merit.