# F. Weiss, 19th Century gunsmith? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 12, 2019, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/f-weiss-19th-century-gunsmith/827664 "2019-01-12T22:40:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2019, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/f-weiss-19th-century-gunsmith/827664/1 "2019-01-12T22:40:24Z")
_Nevada Smith_ was on last night. In it, Steve McQueen used an over & under percussion rifle/shotgun. [Image and description](https://forums.gunbroker.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=650106): > [@](#): > > LOT 94 > Over/Under combination rifle-shotgun, by “F.WEISS PORT JERVIS N.Y.” and so marked on .44 cal. rifle barrel which now appears smooth at the muzzle, both barrels are faceted at the breech for 9" then turn round, the rifle barrel with a large, added ramp sight and an adjustable rear sight. The walnut stock, with checkered wrist, mounted in German silver, backaction locks with very graceful hammers. A well-crafted piece. Used by actor Steve McQueen in “Nevada Smith” (Paramount 1966), “S318”. Est.: $5,000-$10,000. Does anyone have any information on the F. Weiss who made it? ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2019, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/f-weiss-19th-century-gunsmith/827664/2 "2019-01-12T23:22:48Z")
Do you really expect us to do your googling for you? His son died in 2006. His father’s name was Charles, also a gunsmith. You’d think I don’t have anything better to do. I don’t, but that’s not my point. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2019, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/f-weiss-19th-century-gunsmith/827664/3 "2019-01-12T23:36:50Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > Do you really expect us to do your googling for you? I did google. Didn’t turn anything up aside from the old auction post. If you found something about him, can you post a link? ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2019, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/f-weiss-19th-century-gunsmith/827664/4 "2019-01-13T00:32:15Z")
His kid is easier. I had a link with birth and death years but I misplaced it. Anyway, there comes a time in every young bird’s life when his loving and caring father must turn to him and say, “You’ve been here how long and you STILL don’t know how to dig through the internet? Find it your own damn self.” 😃 If you were a cute girl my interest might’ve lasted longer. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2019, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/f-weiss-19th-century-gunsmith/827664/5 "2019-01-13T00:50:57Z")
Thanks for nothing. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2019, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/f-weiss-19th-century-gunsmith/827664/6 "2019-01-13T01:12:34Z")
**[Moderating]** **dropzone** , we discourage people from posting “just Google it”. If it were just your first post here, I’d just let it slide with a moderator note. But when it’s pointed out that the question is nontrivial, you dialed up the snark: If someone doesn’t “know how to dig through the Internet”, then the correct response is to teach them. And then to top it off, you had to make a sexist jab, too. That’s enough to put it over the top, in my eyes. This is an official Warning. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2019, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/f-weiss-19th-century-gunsmith/827664/7 "2019-01-13T01:30:19Z")
Sorry, Johnny, I was a jerk. Frank, Sr is tough to find details of, but despite what I said I’m still looking. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2019, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/f-weiss-19th-century-gunsmith/827664/8 "2019-01-13T01:32:54Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > Sorry, Johnny, I was a jerk. > > Frank, Sr is tough to find details of, but despite what I said I’m still looking. Thank you, **dropzone**. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2019, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/f-weiss-19th-century-gunsmith/827664/9 "2019-01-13T01:54:52Z")
Charles Weiss, Frank, Sr’s dad, died in February, 1871 from the effects of a stroke two years prior. [https://newspaperarchive.com/port-jervis-evening-gazette-feb-16-1871-p-1/](https://newspaperarchive.com/port-jervis-evening-gazette-feb-16-1871-p-1/) Frank, Sr, your guy, was still living in his dad’s cottage in 1877. [https://newspaperarchive.com/port-jervis-evening-gazette-mar-24-1877-p-3/](https://newspaperarchive.com/port-jervis-evening-gazette-mar-24-1877-p-3/) Still looking. Y’know, gripe as I might, it was all in good fun (note the emoticons) 'cuz internet searching is what I do and how I got my several credits in bestsellers. I’m a big enough dweeb to think it’s a fine way to pass a Saturday night. Um, it is Saturday night, right? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2019, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/f-weiss-19th-century-gunsmith/827664/10 "2019-01-13T01:59:47Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > Still looking. Y’know, gripe as I might, it was all in good fun (note the emoticons) 'cuz internet searching is what I do and how I got my several credits in bestsellers. I’m a big enough dweeb to think it’s a fine way to pass a Saturday night. Um, it is Saturday night, right? 😉 So, Oh Great Wise One, since we are here to fight ignorance, tell us your searching secrets already. Or do I have to buy your book first? ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2019, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/f-weiss-19th-century-gunsmith/827664/11 "2019-01-13T02:33:29Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > Charles Weiss, Frank, Sr’s dad, died in February, 1871 from the effects of a stroke two years prior. > [Port Jervis Evening Gazette, Feb 16, 1871, p. 1](https://newspaperarchive.com/port-jervis-evening-gazette-feb-16-1871-p-1/) > > Frank, Sr, your guy, was still living in his dad’s cottage in 1877. > [https://newspaperarchive.com/port-jervis-evening-gazette-mar-24-1877-p-3/](https://newspaperarchive.com/port-jervis-evening-gazette-mar-24-1877-p-3/) Unfortunately, it requires a subscription to see the page(s). Over & under rifle/shotguns are pretty unusual; so when I saw one in the film, and it was a percussion model, I became curious as to what it was, and what else the maker made. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2019, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/f-weiss-19th-century-gunsmith/827664/12 "2019-01-13T02:40:27Z")
Keep digging. Follow every lead. When I found out about their horticultureness I thought I had a lead in Weiss Greenhouses, but not related. I have another lead, but they don’t open until morning. Kathy Reichs, my ticket to the international bestseller lists and [sexist jab] a woman I had a crush on in college [/sexist jab], found me useful professionally so she set me to find a friend of hers from high school. Took me 20 minutes, but Kathy didn’t believe me because she’s a pigheaded professional expert. She asked again a few months later so I called the woman’s son at his car dealership. Yeah, right person. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2019, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/f-weiss-19th-century-gunsmith/827664/13 "2019-01-13T03:02:23Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > Unfortunately, it requires a subscription to see the page(s). It let me in for a few minutes then stopped. The topic isn’t $20 worth of interesting for me to join. > [@](#): > > Over & under rifle/shotguns are pretty unusual; so when I saw one in the film, and it was a percussion model, I became curious as to what it was, and what else the maker made. Probably not much, which explains his shift into flowers. Probably percussion 'cuz that’s what his daddy made and there were still some old Yankees too cheap to pay for cartridges. Who made the .22/.410 over/unders sold in Boys Life back in my day? Ithaca? ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2019, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/f-weiss-19th-century-gunsmith/827664/14 "2019-01-13T03:36:59Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > Who made the .22/.410 over/unders sold in Boys Life back in my day? Ithaca? No idea; but my sister got a [Savage 24 .357/20 gauge](http://media.liveauctiongroup.net/i/18877/18253955_1.jpg?v=8D0C39032DA8A90) back in the late-'70s. ETA: > [@dropzone](#): > > The topic isn’t $20 worth of interesting for me to join. Yeah, I’m curious, but not _that_ curious. . ---
**Author:** ![Gray\_Ghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c0e974/32.png) [@Gray\_Ghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gray_Ghost)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2019, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/f-weiss-19th-century-gunsmith/827664/15 "2019-01-13T04:04:34Z")
Do we know if Weiss made it, or did he just import them? [Gun Indentification – German Hunting Guns](http://www.germanhuntingguns.com/about-the-guns/gun-indentification/) Mentions that it was not uncommon for shops or importers to write to a manufacturer in Suhl or the like, ask them to engrave their own name on a piece, and ship it to them. If it was of German manufacture after 1891, it’d have proof marks, which would be another great way to identify the piece. I mean, it’s one thing to be a gunsmith and shop, it’s another to manufacture something as painstaking as a drilling or rifle/shotgun rig. Especially if the maker went to the trouble of fine engraving, German silver inlays, and the like. FWIW, there was a two generation family of gunsmiths named Weiss, in Suhl. Not that Weiss is all that rare a last name in Germany. Neat piece. Wish there were better pictures of it. ---
**Author:** ![ZurBob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/71e660/32.png) [@ZurBob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZurBob)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2019, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/f-weiss-19th-century-gunsmith/827664/16 "2019-01-13T14:02:54Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > …Who made the .22/.410 over/unders sold in Boys Life back in my day? Ithaca? I’ve got one manufactured circa 1970 by Savage/Stevens.