# F You! (Tourists in Crosswalks) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 17, 2014, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/f-you-tourists-in-crosswalks/690999 "2014-06-17T17:37:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![MikeF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@MikeF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MikeF)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2014, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/f-you-tourists-in-crosswalks/690999/41 "2014-06-18T13:55:43Z")
OP here. First of all I do not speed around, tailgate or otherwise abuse the traffic laws. Even at the posted 25 mph and keeping a sharp eye out for pedestrians, it is sometime necessary to get on the brakes pretty damn hard to avoid a collision or a near miss. Just because it is the law doesn’t mean that common sense shouldn’t prevail. If someone is crossing the street a half a block ahead and I have to slow down - no problem. What I am talking about (and at least some of you seem to get) is people who just walk out without looking. I live within a couple of blocks of the beach and walk there all the time. I would no sooner walk out in front of oncoming traffic (because its_the law_ you know!) than I would stick a fork in my eye. I wait until its safe to do so. If I can’t cross without causing people to come to a stop (or even slow down) I wait. Like I said, on these particular streets its rare that you would have to wait much more than 30-45 seconds. Even most of the local police chiefs have come out against it because of pedestrian abuses and the resultant increase in rear end collisions. You can go on about following too closely and failure to keep a sharp enough lookout and blah, blah, blah. Behavior that is out of the ordinary realm of experience (like people stepping into oncoming traffic) is going to have consequences. Slamming on brakes does not necessarily mean you are going too fast. It may mean someone just stepped out in front of you. The law provides that (2) No pedestrian shall leave a curb or other place of safety and walk or run into the path of a vehicle which is so close that it is impossible for the driver to yield or stop. Presumably, any pedestrian who does so will have been struck by said vehicle. So, under the law, the driver would have to actually hit the ped in order for the ped to be in the wrong. Legally? OK. Common “sense-ically?” Bullshit. If traffic is so bad that you have to wait three or four minutes to cross perhaps there ought to be a light or you could walk to where there is a light. It seems that most of the people who disagree with me are doing so based on principal whereas most of the people who agree with me are doing so based on experience. ---
**Author:** ![gallows\_fodder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8c91f0/32.png) [@gallows\_fodder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gallows_fodder)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2014, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/f-you-tourists-in-crosswalks/690999/42 "2014-06-18T13:58:44Z")
> [@MikeF](#): > > It seems that most of the people who disagree with me are doing so based on principal whereas most of the people who agree with me are doing so based on experience. Ah, this board in a nutshell. ---
**Author:** ![lost4life](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c4cdca/32.png) [@lost4life](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lost4life)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2014, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/f-you-tourists-in-crosswalks/690999/43 "2014-06-18T13:58:47Z")
> [@gallows\_fodder](#): > > I’ve been rear-ended twice because of nutball students not understanding that their right of way doesn’t trump the laws of physics. Unless it was the nutball students who actually rear-ended you, I think you’re blaming the wrong person. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2014, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/f-you-tourists-in-crosswalks/690999/44 "2014-06-18T14:01:42Z")
> [@MikeF](#): > > It seems that most of the people who disagree with me are doing so based on principal whereas most of the people who agree with me are doing so based on experience. I’ve had plenty of experience as a pedestrian at crosswalks where cars utterly refused to yield as the law required. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2014, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/f-you-tourists-in-crosswalks/690999/45 "2014-06-18T14:11:41Z")
Nice combination of username and thread title, too. ---
**Author:** ![Flyer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/flyer/32/7298_2.png) [@Flyer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flyer)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2014, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/f-you-tourists-in-crosswalks/690999/46 "2014-06-18T15:53:28Z")
> [@Mr.Miskatonic](#): > > Gosh, are the awful, awful tourist-pedestrians making you obey speed limits, not tailgate, and actually pay fucking attention? > > You poor, poor thing. > [@TroutMan](#): > > WTF is wrong with you?! Why can’t you just wait for people to cross the street like any seven year old? On a busy day you might have to wait for 10 seconds or even (GASP) an entire 20 seconds! That would be extremely rare, BTW. I don’t know what the rush is. You have to pee? Happy hour somewhere? No matter. You are on a mission and even though you know the law is **not** on your side, you still need to complain. > > Here’s a better idea: pay attention to people nearing the crosswalk, drive slowly enough that you don’t have to slam on the brakes, and don’t tailgate. > [@Mr.Miskatonic](#): > > But it is a location where a driver should be paying attention to possible crossers and not speeding or tailgating. > [@LavenderBlue](#): > > The OP needs to learn to obey traffic laws and pay attention to the road or ditch the car and join the pedestrians. > [@CoastalMaineiac](#): > > Yielding to pedestrians is the same idea as yielding to cars. The crosswalk is an implied yield sign. Remember what you’re supposed to do at one of those? Slow down to an appropriate speed and be prepared to stop if it is necessary. > > If you are constantly having to slam on your brakes to stop at yield signs, you are approaching them too fast. The same applies at crosswalks. > > If you were to approach a yield sign at a blind intersection, would you be bitching about cross traffic the same way you are now bitching about pedestrians? All of you idiots fail at both reading comprehension and common sense. The OP described a situation where he’s the first one to stop at a crosswalk and he’s concerned about somebody rear-ending HIM. I take it from your comments that you would be delighted to see somebody get killed because they insisted on using their right-of-way. After all, the law is the law, right? Why should somebody give up their legal right merely in order to keep on living? And lastly–everybody who thinks that 25 mph is “fast” is a worthless, useless waste of space and oxygen. Go back to the 18th century where you belong. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2014, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/f-you-tourists-in-crosswalks/690999/47 "2014-06-18T16:06:37Z")
> [@Flyer](#): > > All of you idiots fail at both reading comprehension and common sense. The OP described a situation where he’s the first one to stop at a crosswalk and he’s concerned about somebody rear-ending HIM. We read that quite well. All it means is that rather than blaming the tailgating idiot behind him he decided to blame the pedestrians. > [@](#): > > I take it from your comments that you would be delighted to see somebody get killed because they insisted on using their right-of-way. After all, the law is the law, right? Why should somebody give up their legal right merely in order to keep on living? My comments are such that I have been on roads with crosswalks where drivers are supposed to FUCKING YIELD to pedestrians in the crosswalk but rarely can be bothered. Finally when I have had enough and step out when there is a slightly larger gap between cars that car speeds up to pretend they can’t see me so they don’t have to stop for those pesky, pesky pedestrians. In other words, take you “You could be right.Dead right haw haw haw” attitude and shove it. > [@](#): > > And lastly–everybody who thinks that 25 mph is “fast” is a worthless, useless waste of space and oxygen. Go back to the 18th century where you belong. 25 mph is the _speed limit_ on local streets around here and if during tourist season you are driving 25mph through the popular tourist areas at the limit you are a fucking psychopath. ---
**Author:** ![SeaDragonTattoo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@SeaDragonTattoo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SeaDragonTattoo)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2014, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/f-you-tourists-in-crosswalks/690999/48 "2014-06-18T17:32:34Z")
The OP is referring to crosswalks marked like this: [http://www.ci.galesburg.il.us/assets/1/7/students\_crosswalk.jpg](http://www.ci.galesburg.il.us/assets/1/7/students_crosswalk.jpg), right? I treat those like 4-way stops, and do a rolling stop if it’s clear. So I’m always tapping the brakes when approaching these crosswalks, and pretty much never doing the speed limit unless it’s 3am and I can see for sure there’s no one there from far enough away. ---
**Author:** ![CoastalMaineiac](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e8c25b/32.png) [@CoastalMaineiac](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CoastalMaineiac)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2014, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/f-you-tourists-in-crosswalks/690999/49 "2014-06-18T18:17:42Z")
> [@Flyer](#): > > All of you idiots fail at both reading comprehension and common sense. The OP described a situation where he’s the first one to stop at a crosswalk and he’s concerned about somebody rear-ending HIM. > [@MikeF](#): > > Just yesterday a group of these morons, including little kids walked right out in front me. No pause at the curb. No looking left or right . Nothing. **I was doing the 25 mph limit but still had to get on the brakes hard to stop in time.** I looked in my rear view mirror and there was not another car coming as far as the eye could see. If you look at them funny or, god forbid, sound your horn they get all indignant and start pointing at the painted crosswalk and flipping the bird. Sure sounds like he was more agitated that he had to hit the brakes hard because the pedestrian caught him by surprise. > [@Flyer](#): > > I take it from your comments that you would be delighted to see somebody get killed because they insisted on using their right-of-way. After all, the law is the law, right? Why should somebody give up their legal right merely in order to keep on living? I would be delighted if other drivers had any sort of comprehension of the meaning of the word “yield.” When you have to yield, stopping is always a possibility, so be ready for it! Why should drivers _not_ heed their legal obligation to yield the right-of-way in order to keep from killing an innocent person who just wants to cross the street? > [@Flyer](#): > > And lastly–everybody who thinks that 25 mph is “fast” is a worthless, useless waste of space and oxygen. Go back to the 18th century where you belong. _Fast_ is relative, depending on the conditions of the roadway where you are. It’s a snails pace on the interstates, but not on city streets where motorists are **not the only people entitled to use the road**. Look at this intersection [here](https://www.google.com/maps/@44.42145,-69.007474,3a,75y,229.39h,68.51t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sMvIq4474ejVFQsxzFB6LcA!2e0). Note that it is controlled by a yield sign. The obligation is the same here as at a crosswalk, only the sign covers vehicles _and_ pedestrians. As you can see, the view to the left is obstructed by various shrubberies. Would you think the OP had a legitimate gripe if he were complaining that he had to slam on his brakes because a car came out of nowhere on the cross street, or would you tell him he needs to be better prepared for it the next time and maybe go a bit slower through that intersection the next time? His obligation to yield is the same in both circumstances, and if he is unprepared for it, it’s his own fault, not the fault of the person (whether on foot, bicycle or in a car) to whom he is required to yield. The word _limit_ on a speed limit sign refers to an _upper_ limit, not a _lower_ limit. ---
**Author:** ![Sterling\_Archer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Sterling\_Archer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sterling_Archer)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2014, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/f-you-tourists-in-crosswalks/690999/50 "2014-06-18T18:18:22Z")
Yeah the problem arises when there’s a crosswalk on the street only marked by painted lines, no warning signs, reflective paint, or anything, and the pedestrian has full-right-of-way within the crosswalk. Add busy sidewalks to this combination and you have a recipe for disaster. The drivers may not even realize there is a crosswalk there until they are right on top of it. If the pedestrian has all-the-time-right-of-way, there really needs to be a sign and a flashing yellow light to give plenty of warning to the motorists to treat it like a yield sign. Two painted stripes on the road doesn’t cut it. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2014, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/f-you-tourists-in-crosswalks/690999/51 "2014-06-18T18:20:43Z")
I don’t understand why we don’t use pedestrian-activated stop lights more often for these kinds of situations. I think they’re called pelican crossings in Britain. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2014, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/f-you-tourists-in-crosswalks/690999/52 "2014-06-18T18:23:03Z")
If it is tourist season, can we shoot 'em? ---
**Author:** ![DingoelGringo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9d8465/32.png) [@DingoelGringo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DingoelGringo)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2014, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/f-you-tourists-in-crosswalks/690999/53 "2014-06-18T18:24:35Z")
> [@Mr.Miskatonic](#): > > This is what the OP said: > > So he dislikes the law outright, not the pedestrians taking advantage of it. And his concern about the consequences: > > If there are rear end collisions then somebody was driving too fucking close. > > He’s blaming the tourists for not looking - but they had the right of way and he was the one going the full speed limit. > > I’ve lived in a tourist town. No sympathy for the OP. You put up with it or you move elsewhere. I spent 35 years in Fart Louder Dale Florida, so know what a tourist town is. And as the OP said the tourists have the right of way, so pay attention to them and be ready to stop. If you don’t like the tourist town there is always Bridge Out Tennessee. Or Mud Flats Mississippi. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2014, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/f-you-tourists-in-crosswalks/690999/54 "2014-06-18T18:50:39Z")
> [@Sterling\_Archer](#): > > Yeah the problem arises when there’s a crosswalk on the street only marked by painted lines, no warning signs, reflective paint, or anything, and the pedestrian has full-right-of-way within the crosswalk. Add busy sidewalks to this combination and you have a recipe for disaster. The drivers may not even realize there is a crosswalk there until they are right on top of it. If the pedestrian has all-the-time-right-of-way, there really needs to be a sign and a flashing yellow light to give plenty of warning to the motorists to treat it like a yield sign. Two painted stripes on the road doesn’t cut it. Some drivers are so stupid that flashing lights won’t help, either. Back when I worked nearby, [the intersection directly behind these vehicles was a flashing yellow/red at all times](https://maps.google.com/maps?q=2800+crystal+drive,+arlington,+va&hl=en&ll=38.848206,-77.052387&spn=0.000008,0.004833&sll=38.003385,-79.420925&sspn=6.300893,9.898682&hnear=2800+Crystal+Dr,+Arlington,+Virginia+22202&t=m&z=18&layer=c&cbll=38.84816,-77.052923&panoid=pOACteYcUB6dUODk9vV2ug&cbp=12,94.17,,2,0.63) with the red for traffic emerging from the right. Had to watch out for cross traffic turning from Jefferson Davis. Never had any problem execpt for the one guy who made a point to slow down and yell at me while I was crossing the double yellow. The idiot didn’t have his window down! ---
**Author:** ![Rachellelogram](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rachellelogram/32/8689_2.png) [@Rachellelogram](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rachellelogram)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2014, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/f-you-tourists-in-crosswalks/690999/55 "2014-06-18T20:06:16Z")
I live in a small city with one SLAC and one large Ivy. During the school year, our population more than triples and the students are more dangerously unpredictable than deer. So, during the school year, I avoid collegetown entirely and drive gingerly downtown–that means at least 5mph under the speed limit, scanning sidewalks at all times. Pedestrians gonna ped. Nothing to do but find an alternate route or put up with it. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2014, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/f-you-tourists-in-crosswalks/690999/56 "2014-06-18T21:32:59Z")
> [@Rachellelogram](#): > > I live in a small city with one SLAC and one large Ivy. Hmmm. Sounds like Ithaca. ---
**Author:** ![cococ173](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3ab097/32.png) [@cococ173](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cococ173)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2014, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/f-you-tourists-in-crosswalks/690999/57 "2014-06-18T21:45:01Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > Those of you abusing the OP obviously don’t live in a tourist area. Here, we have them 365 days of the year, but of course summer is the worst. I don’t drive anywhere near the beach because the damn tourists _do_ walk right out in front of cars, and the PCH speed limit isn’t anything near as low as 25 mph. Because CA drivers are good at seeing trouble ahead and avoiding it, we don’t hit too many of the Darwin award nominees but damn! Really? I learned to drive in NY and moved to LA a few decades ago. CA drivers are among the worst I ever encountered. They are too busy texting, shaving, putting mascara on, faxing, or day dreaming to see anything. When it rains, I see cars flipped over–from a little rain. Just my opinion, of course. ---
**Author:** ![Rachellelogram](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rachellelogram/32/8689_2.png) [@Rachellelogram](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rachellelogram)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2014, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/f-you-tourists-in-crosswalks/690999/58 "2014-06-18T22:32:04Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Hmmm. Sounds like Ithaca. I took a look outside and it looks like Ithaca, too. Weird! 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2014, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/f-you-tourists-in-crosswalks/690999/59 "2014-06-18T22:58:14Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > I don’t understand why we don’t use pedestrian-activated stop lights more often for these kinds of situations. I think they’re called pelican crossings in Britain. They are, but we also have ‘[zebra crossings](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abbey_Road)’ where the pedestrian has priority at all times. ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2014, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/f-you-tourists-in-crosswalks/690999/60 "2014-06-18T23:55:05Z")
When I read the OP I wondered if it was the guy who yelled that I was a “selfish motherfucker” this morning, but the timing isn’t right. This is a road with two lanes in each direction that actually narrows down to one lane each at the crosswalk (the outer lanes are blocked by a raise curb that extends from the sidewalk). With signs. I was standing between lanes one and two while four cars zipped by. To his credit, the guy who yelled at me did slow down and let me cross. I’ve lived with a car in three different college towns and crossers crossing on crosswalks are such a non-issue. To most people. There are always going to be a few of the clueless chucklefucks who are surprised when the people walking next to the crosswalk actually use it. There is or was one crosswalk on W Main or University Ave in Charlottesville where they’re doing construction and the fences made it blind to pedestrian approach from the south. Strangely enough people slowed down there. They should have blasted off the paint and moved it. Maybe they have. I have seen a rear-ending at a crosswalk. Years ago in Ruidoso, NM. Idiot tailgaters are the ones we should be pitting. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/f-you-tourists-in-crosswalks/690999.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/f-you-tourists-in-crosswalks/690999.md?page=4)