# F4U and F6F vs. Axis aircraft in WWII **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [November 9, 2010, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/f4u-and-f6f-vs-axis-aircraft-in-wwii/560038 "2010-11-09T15:06:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2010, 4:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/f4u-and-f6f-vs-axis-aircraft-in-wwii/560038/21 "2010-11-10T04:55:45Z")
Yep, but generally incendiary ammunition wasn’t used. There were tracers, but the idea was to break the target apart rather than to set the skin on fire. Hitting the opponent’s fuel tank was desirable, but generally speaking you wanted to break parts off. Most aircraft at the time had some fabric-covered parts, generally the control surfaces (rudder, ailerons, and elevators). The Hurricane was deigned using ‘old school’ techniques. It was developed from the Fury biplane. The Spitfire, which first flew four months after the Hurricane’s first flight, was developed with the more modern monocoque construction. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2010, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/f4u-and-f6f-vs-axis-aircraft-in-wwii/560038/22 "2010-11-10T05:01:07Z")
I thought the incendiary ammo concept in WWI was to burn balloons, zeppelins and fabric covered aircraft. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2010, 5:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/f4u-and-f6f-vs-axis-aircraft-in-wwii/560038/23 "2010-11-10T05:16:01Z")
IIRC, the primary purpose of incendiary ammunition in WWI was to go after the observation balloons. By WWII most front-line fighters and bombers were metal. The idea was to smash as much lead as possible against that metal so as to cause structural failure. (Or to kill the pilot, or to set the fuel on fire.) The British used .303 Brownings, and had to use eight of them in the Hurricanes and Spitfires to get that lethal mass. Later Hurricanes carried 12 Brownings. Both the Hurricane and Spitfire later gained quartets of 20mm cannons in the wings. Meanwhile, the Bf-109 was designed with a pair of 7.92mm (roughly .30 caliber, like the Brownings) machine guns (one in each wing) – and a 20mm cannon firing through the propeller hub. Most of our planes (e.g., the P-51 Mustang or the F4U Corsair) used six .50 caliber guns, which packed a greater punch. The mighty P-47 Thunderbolt had eight fifties. Take a look at some of the documentaries, and you’ll see how well the guns chewed up the metal. In many clips you’ll see parts flying off. Hm… Kind of getting away from U.S. Navy (designed-for) fighters in the European air war… ---
**Author:** ![Knorf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/58956e/32.png) [@Knorf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knorf)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2010, 5:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/f4u-and-f6f-vs-axis-aircraft-in-wwii/560038/24 "2010-11-10T05:53:38Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > The mighty P-47 Thunderbolt had eight fifties. Phrases such as this make me feel all tingly and happy inside. I never understand why people don’t mention the mighty P-47 Thunderbolt more often. I suppose it’s because the P-47 isn’t as immediately striking in appearance as others, but for sure one can’t fault its performance. ---
**Author:** ![yendis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ed8c4c/32.png) [@yendis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yendis)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2010, 8:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/f4u-and-f6f-vs-axis-aircraft-in-wwii/560038/25 "2010-11-10T08:43:34Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > Hm… Kind of getting away from U.S. Navy (designed-for) fighters in the European air war… Which reminds me of another US Navy fighter used in Europe: the [Brewster Buffalo](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brewster_F2A_Buffalo), used by Finland in their Continuation War against the USSR. ---
**Author:** ![audit1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ed8c4c/32.png) [@audit1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/audit1)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2010, 9:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/f4u-and-f6f-vs-axis-aircraft-in-wwii/560038/26 "2010-11-10T09:19:23Z")
On August 19 1944 Ens. Alfred R Wood shot down two German planes while flying an F6F-5 from VOF-1 off the USS Tulagi over southern France. On August 20 Lt Edward Olszewski scored two more kills flying the same plane. I have no information as to what sort of German aircraft was involved. Souce F6f Hellcat in Action. Squadron books 2009 ---
**Author:** ![audit1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ed8c4c/32.png) [@audit1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/audit1)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2010, 9:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/f4u-and-f6f-vs-axis-aircraft-in-wwii/560038/27 "2010-11-10T09:44:01Z")
Did a quick wikipedia search. and the German aircraft shot down on August 21, 1944 were JU 52s. USS Tulagi was operating in support of Operation Dragoon the invasion of Southern France. ---
**Author:** ![Icerigger](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/icerigger/32/432_2.png) [@Icerigger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Icerigger)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2010, 11:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/f4u-and-f6f-vs-axis-aircraft-in-wwii/560038/28 "2010-11-10T11:02:17Z")
Note, a Corsair did manage to shoot down a Mig 15 in Korea. ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2010, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/f4u-and-f6f-vs-axis-aircraft-in-wwii/560038/29 "2010-11-10T13:01:17Z")
> [@Icerigger](#): > > Note, a Corsair did manage to shoot down a Mig 15 in Korea. That’s dead sexy. Captain Jesse G. Folmar, according to tha intarweb. Silver Star for it, but was shot down himself. ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2010, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/f4u-and-f6f-vs-axis-aircraft-in-wwii/560038/30 "2010-11-10T13:06:26Z")
> [@Knorf](#): > > Phrases such as this make me feel all tingly and happy inside. > > I never understand why people don’t mention the mighty P-47 Thunderbolt more often. I suppose it’s because the P-47 isn’t as immediately striking in appearance as others, but for sure one can’t fault its performance. I’ve read that, _at very high altitudes_, the chunky, heavy Thunderbolt was _more_ maneuverable than any of its contemporaries. Possibly because of the horsepower and the elaborate supercharger system. So, to sum up, you’ve got a plane that was faster, higher-flying, much more rugged, more heavily armed, longer-ranged, faster-diving, AND more maneuverable under some circumstances (at bomber-stream height) than anything your enemies had. _And_ present in large numbers. Tingly indeed. ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2010, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/f4u-and-f6f-vs-axis-aircraft-in-wwii/560038/31 "2010-11-10T16:12:54Z")
> [@audit1](#): > > On August 19 1944 Ens. Alfred R Wood shot down two German planes while flying an F6F-5 from VOF-1 off the USS Tulagi over southern France. On August 20 Lt Edward Olszewski scored two more kills flying the same plane. I have no information as to what sort of German aircraft was involved. Souce F6f Hellcat in Action. Squadron books 2009 According to the Order of Battle page for this operation, there were several Hellcat squadrons involved: 800 Squadron on the HMS Emperor VOF-01 on the USS Tulagi VF-74 on the USS Kasaan Bay VOC-01 (a composite squadron) with the Mediterranean Allied Coastal Air Force > **[Operation Dragoon order of battle](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Dragoon_order_of_battle)** > > On 15 August 1944, Allied forces carried out Operation Dragoon, a set of simultaneous amphibious landings by three US infantry divisions followed by four Free French divisions along the Mediterranean coast of France. The main landings were preceded by nighttime paratroop drops and commando beach landings. This was a phase of the European Theatre of World War II. > Originally called Operation Anvil, these landings had been intended to take place at the same time as the Normandy landings of Operatio... This site ( [vectorsite.net](http://www.vectorsite.net/avf4u.html#m5) ) claims some Royal Navy Corsairs engaged the Luftwaffe (but no enemy fighters) over Norway in raids on the Tirpitz in April, July, and August of '44, but wiki says no aerial opposition was encountered ( [Vought F4U Corsair - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F4U) ). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/f4u-and-f6f-vs-axis-aircraft-in-wwii/560038.md?page=1)