# Facebook faces another privacy vs freedom of speech problem- pedofile wins £20,000 damages **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 20, 2015, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/facebook-faces-another-privacy-vs-freedom-of-speech-problem-pedofile-wins-20-000-damages/713215 "2015-02-20T19:35:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_fun_ball/32/17664_2.png) [@Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Fun_Ball)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2015, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/facebook-faces-another-privacy-vs-freedom-of-speech-problem-pedofile-wins-20-000-damages/713215/81 "2015-02-21T19:32:09Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > Moral relativism rears its ugly head. Some pedophiles aren’t as bad as others. I reject that. > > And parents, and anyone else who ever takes care of children, including teachers, babysitters, grandparents, aunts, uncles, cousins, older siblings, even neighbors (remember, it takes a village!) have the absolute right to know that Mr. Creepy down the hall in Apt 2B is a kiddy diddler. I think this case is different. I would agree with you that you have the right to know if your neighbor or the school nurse has been convicted of pedophilia; this kind of information is important in your role as the protector of your children. This facebook thing is different in my opinion. Essentially it was a club of like minded individuals that were tracking down pedophiles and harassing them or cheering on others while they harassed them. This is completely different than letting everybody near the pedophile with children know that there is a potentially dangerous person nearby. This is different than publishing the pedophiles name and details of his crimes on a searchable directory (by the way, do you search the child abuse registries for people who have access to your children?). This guy started a social media site with followers that were engaging in recreational outrage and hate and possibly inciting violence. I think the penalty was deserved though I do not believe that any conviction, especially one on charges of pedophilia, is private information. I feel the same about assault, theft, and drunk driving. I don’t really want those people around me and mine either. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2015, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/facebook-faces-another-privacy-vs-freedom-of-speech-problem-pedofile-wins-20-000-damages/713215/82 "2015-02-21T19:48:01Z")
“Pedophile” isn’t synonymous with “child molester”, and vice versa. This is an important distinction. Acting as though all pedophiles molest children (and that only pedophiles do so) is part of the Western hysteria that \*\* Ibn Warraq\*\* mentioned. ---
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2015, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/facebook-faces-another-privacy-vs-freedom-of-speech-problem-pedofile-wins-20-000-damages/713215/83 "2015-02-21T19:58:16Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > “Pedophile” isn’t synonymous with “child molester”, and vice versa. This is an important distinction. Acting as though all pedophiles molest children (and that only pedophiles do so) is part of the Western hysteria that \*\* Ibn Warraq\*\* mentioned. I have used the word as the press do to mean any child sex offender. Technically it only means people with an attraction to pre-pubescent children, whether they act on it or not. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2015, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/facebook-faces-another-privacy-vs-freedom-of-speech-problem-pedofile-wins-20-000-damages/713215/84 "2015-02-21T20:14:30Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > Moral relativism rears its ugly head. Some pedophiles aren’t as bad as others. I reject that. Moral relativism is the idea that what is wrong for one person may not be wrong for another person. It has nothing to do with seeing shades of gray or degrees of wrongness. What you are claiming to reject what most of us learn around age 11 or 12, that the world is not black and white, that some bad things are not as bad as others. If you really did reject this, you would have a hard time functioning in society. You use the word pedophile, so I’ll start there. There are pedophiles that have formed a group where they get together and keep themselves from ever becoming child molesters. I would actually count them as more moral than someone prejudging all pedophiles as being horrible. It takes a huge strength of character to fight your sexual urges. But let’s say you are like **Pjen** and are using pedophile to mean child molester. Consider the guy who touched the naughty bits of one child, got caught, did time in prison, and now works his hardest to stay away from children as much as possible. Would you really say he is just as bad as a serial child molester priest who grooms children, convinces them that they cannot tell anyone, and moves away before anyone can catch him? If so, then I ask, do you see the guy who accidentally killed someone through negligence as the same as a serial murderer? If not, why does your moral system break down when child molestation (or worse, pedophilia) is involved? ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2015, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/facebook-faces-another-privacy-vs-freedom-of-speech-problem-pedofile-wins-20-000-damages/713215/85 "2015-02-21T20:30:02Z")
> [@Pjen](#): > > I have used the word as the press do to mean any child sex offender. > > Technically it only means people with an attraction to pre-pubescent children, whether they act on it or not. I’m objecting to your(and the British press, if this is their standard practice, and **D’Anconia** ’s) usage, as it’s both factually incorrect (as already noted), and morally wrong (as it demonizes non-offending pedophiles, who do indeed organize in “Virtuous Pedophile” groups to help themselves remain non-offending). It also overlooks the estimated 50% of child molesters who aren’t pedophiles, which can serve to blind parents and guardians to that danger. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2015, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/facebook-faces-another-privacy-vs-freedom-of-speech-problem-pedofile-wins-20-000-damages/713215/86 "2015-02-21T20:41:52Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > But let’s say you are like **Pjen** and are using pedophile to mean child molester. Consider the guy who touched the naughty bits of one child, got caught, did time in prison, and now works his hardest to stay away from children as much as possible. > > Would you really say he is just as bad as a serial child molester priest who grooms children, convinces them that they cannot tell anyone, and moves away before anyone can catch him? I certainly wouldn’t, and I sure hope other people would say one is worse than the other. Heck, that’s why I’d want truthful information about what each of them did: so I can make an informed decision about whether one is just as bad as the other! > [@](#): > > If so, then I ask, do you see the guy who accidentally killed someone through negligence as the same as a serial murderer? Of course not! That’s why we should have access to truthful information about whether a guy _accidentally killed someone,_ or _was a serial murderer!_ ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2015, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/facebook-faces-another-privacy-vs-freedom-of-speech-problem-pedofile-wins-20-000-damages/713215/87 "2015-02-21T20:42:03Z")
I would not say the decision is perfect, as I don’t like covering this issue as a human right to privacy, which I don’t really think exists. But it is definitely better than the sex offender registry and hounding these people for the rest of their lives. I could see such a thing working if we weren’t so fucking paranoid about all of this. You could then say that it’s just to let people keep an eye on them. But that’s not what happens. You can see in this thread people saying pedophile (meaning child molester) the same way a racist refers to black people. The UK system sounds better. Have some sort of professional that can keep away from the bigotry and vigilantism–someone who is responsible to a government authority–can help make sure that it’s dealt with correctly without bigotry. Considering this, I support a law preventing what these kids did, and support the decision because Facebook was clearly lax in monitoring this situation. Pulling it down only after people have been harassed is too late. It makes sense for you to pay for damages caused by said harassment. I still do not remotely support the Right to be Forgotten, as it’s about forcing Google who has no malicious intent in simply indexing information, unlike the Facebook group which was promoting vigilantism. ---
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2015, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/facebook-faces-another-privacy-vs-freedom-of-speech-problem-pedofile-wins-20-000-damages/713215/88 "2015-02-21T21:33:20Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > I’m objecting to your(and the British press, if this is their standard practice, and **D’Anconia** ’s) usage, as it’s both factually incorrect (as already noted), and morally wrong (as it demonizes non-offending pedophiles, who do indeed organize in “Virtuous Pedophile” groups to help themselves remain non-offending). It also overlooks the estimated 50% of child molesters who aren’t pedophiles, which can serve to blind parents and guardians to that danger. Which 50%of child molesters are not paedophiles? ---
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2015, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/facebook-faces-another-privacy-vs-freedom-of-speech-problem-pedofile-wins-20-000-damages/713215/89 "2015-02-21T21:35:31Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > I would not say the decision is perfect, as I don’t like covering this issue as a human right to privacy, which I don’t really think exists. But it is definitely better than the sex offender registry and hounding these people for the rest of their lives. > > I could see such a thing working if we weren’t so fucking paranoid about all of this. You could then say that it’s just to let people keep an eye on them. But that’s not what happens. You can see in this thread people saying pedophile (meaning child molester) the same way a racist refers to black people. > > The UK system sounds better. Have some sort of professional that can keep away from the bigotry and vigilantism–someone who is responsible to a government authority–can help make sure that it’s dealt with correctly without bigotry. > > Considering this, I support a law preventing what these kids did, and support the decision because Facebook was clearly lax in monitoring this situation. Pulling it down only after people have been harassed is too late. It makes sense for you to pay for damages caused by said harassment. > > I still do not remotely support the Right to be Forgotten, as it’s about forcing Google who has no malicious intent in simply indexing information, unlike the Facebook group which was promoting vigilantism. The right to privacy is enshrined as part of European human rights law. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2015, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/facebook-faces-another-privacy-vs-freedom-of-speech-problem-pedofile-wins-20-000-damages/713215/90 "2015-02-21T21:46:49Z")
> [@Pjen](#): > > Which 50%of child molesters are not paedophiles? 😕 The half that…aren’t? I’m not understanding your question. [LA Times: Many researchers taking a different view of pedophilia](http://articles.latimes.com/2013/jan/14/local/la-me-pedophiles-20130115) > [@](#): > > Not all pedophiles molest children. Nor are all child molesters pedophiles. Studies show that about half of all molesters are not sexually attracted to their victims. They often have personality disorders or violent streaks, and their victims are typically family members. > > By contrast, pedophiles tend to think of children as romantic partners and look beyond immediate relatives. They include chronic abusers familiar from the headlines — Catholic priests, coaches and generations of Boy Scout leaders. [California Department of Justice: Facts about Sex Offenders](http://www.meganslaw.ca.gov/facts.aspx) > [@](#): > > Child sexual abusers are only attracted to children and are not capable of appropriate sexual relationships. > > False. While there is a small subset of child sexual abusers who are exclusively attracted to children, the majority of the individuals who sexually abuse children are (or have previously been) attracted to adults. [Trends & issues in crime and criminal justice no.429: Misperceptions about child sex offenders](http://www.aic.gov.au/publications/current%20series/tandi/421-440/tandi429.html) (PDF at source) > [@](#): > > It is also important to recognise that not all child sex offenders feel driven or compelled to sexually abuse children. In fact, opportunity can play a key role in the > commission of sexual offences against children. As Wortley and Smallbone (2006) argue, research has indicated that situational and environmental factors can play a key role in sexual offending against children. > > … > > Nonetheless, while child sex offenders are often depicted as predatory ‘paedophiles’ > who have a persistent sexual interest in children, it is important to acknowledge that both predation and opportunity can lead to the sexual victimisation of children. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2015, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/facebook-faces-another-privacy-vs-freedom-of-speech-problem-pedofile-wins-20-000-damages/713215/91 "2015-02-21T22:39:40Z")
> [@Pjen](#): > > The right to privacy is enshrined as part of European human rights law. And disagreeing as to whether it should be is a perfectly legitimate opinion. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2015, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/facebook-faces-another-privacy-vs-freedom-of-speech-problem-pedofile-wins-20-000-damages/713215/92 "2015-02-21T23:02:36Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > What would you do if you knew that the man next door _was_ a pedophile, served his time, and had kept out of trouble for the last five or ten years? How much trouble would you cause him? How far would you go to harass him? How much sand would _you_ throw in the engine of rehabilitation? Wouldn’t you want to know if you were living next to an allegedly rehabilitated axe murderer? 32% of child molesters reoffend. That is a large percentage, given what’s at risk. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2015, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/facebook-faces-another-privacy-vs-freedom-of-speech-problem-pedofile-wins-20-000-damages/713215/93 "2015-02-21T23:12:00Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > 32% of child molesters reoffend. That is a large percentage, given what’s at risk. where did you get that number? ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2015, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/facebook-faces-another-privacy-vs-freedom-of-speech-problem-pedofile-wins-20-000-damages/713215/94 "2015-02-21T23:17:42Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > If so, then I ask, do you see the guy who accidentally killed someone through negligence as the same as a serial murderer? If not, why does your moral system break down when child molestation (or worse, pedophilia) is involved? There is a world of difference between someone who killed someone through negligence and someone who feels compelled to murder. The issue with a pedophile is there is really no such thing as “negligent pedophilia”. Anyone who engages in it is pretty much by definition compelled to it. It is part and parcel of who they are. As such the kiddy diddler in 2B may be trying real hard to contain himself but you know you have a person living next to you who has to struggle every day to avoid sexually assaulting kids. If you had kids in that situation (i.e. you lived in 2A) I think it is reasonable to be worried. To me it would be akin to living next to someone who had a lion. It may be docile most of the time but it only has to slip once to cause irreparable harm. ---
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2015, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/facebook-faces-another-privacy-vs-freedom-of-speech-problem-pedofile-wins-20-000-damages/713215/95 "2015-02-21T23:26:42Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > 😕 The half that…aren’t? I’m not understanding your question. > > [LA Times: Many researchers taking a different view of pedophilia](http://articles.latimes.com/2013/jan/14/local/la-me-pedophiles-20130115) > [California Department of Justice: Facts about Sex Offenders](http://www.meganslaw.ca.gov/facts.aspx) > [Trends & issues in crime and criminal justice no.429: Misperceptions about child sex offenders](http://www.aic.gov.au/publications/current%20series/tandi/421-440/tandi429.html) (PDF at source) I am suspicious of any figures about child abuse as so little valid research has been done. We have no accurate idea how many people feel attraction to pre-pubescent or pubescent children- opinion polls do not help. We have no idea about the majority of child abusers who do not come to the attention of health or criminal justice services. We can say that there are several motivations and different sexual attractions that overlap, but we really have no clear idea about numbers. Similarly we have limited information about reoffending rates across the spectrum. ---
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2015, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/facebook-faces-another-privacy-vs-freedom-of-speech-problem-pedofile-wins-20-000-damages/713215/96 "2015-02-21T23:27:57Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > There is a world of difference between someone who killed someone through negligence and someone who feels compelled to murder. > > The issue with a pedophile is there is really no such thing as “negligent pedophilia”. Anyone who engages in it is pretty much by definition compelled to it. It is part and parcel of who they are. As such the kiddy diddler in 2B may be trying real hard to contain himself but you know you have a person living next to you who has to struggle every day to avoid sexually assaulting kids. If you had kids in that situation (i.e. you lived in 2A) I think it is reasonable to be worried. > > To me it would be akin to living next to someone who had a lion. It may be docile most of the time but it only has to slip once to cause irreparable harm. And your knowledge base to support this analysis is… ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2015, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/facebook-faces-another-privacy-vs-freedom-of-speech-problem-pedofile-wins-20-000-damages/713215/97 "2015-02-21T23:30:51Z")
> [@Pjen](#): > > I am suspicious of any figures about child abuse as so little valid research has been done. > > We have no accurate idea how many people feel attraction to pre-pubescent or pubescent children- opinion polls do not help. > > We have no idea about the majority of child abusers who do not come to the attention of health or criminal justice services. > > We can say that there are several motivations and different sexual attractions that overlap, but we really have no clear idea about numbers. > > Similarly we have limited information about reoffending rates across the spectrum. And your knowledge base to support this is… ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2015, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/facebook-faces-another-privacy-vs-freedom-of-speech-problem-pedofile-wins-20-000-damages/713215/98 "2015-02-21T23:32:52Z")
\*\*Pjen \*\*- is your purpose in this thread to defend British privacy laws, or to defend pedophilia? ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2015, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/facebook-faces-another-privacy-vs-freedom-of-speech-problem-pedofile-wins-20-000-damages/713215/99 "2015-02-21T23:36:50Z")
> [@Pjen](#): > > And your knowledge base to support this analysis is… Common sense. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2015, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/facebook-faces-another-privacy-vs-freedom-of-speech-problem-pedofile-wins-20-000-damages/713215/100 "2015-02-21T23:44:50Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > where did you get that number? The Justice Department under Janet Reno. You can look it up. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/facebook-faces-another-privacy-vs-freedom-of-speech-problem-pedofile-wins-20-000-damages/713215.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/facebook-faces-another-privacy-vs-freedom-of-speech-problem-pedofile-wins-20-000-damages/713215.md?page=6)