# Facebook Games = Evidence of Doom of Western Civilization **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [January 25, 2011, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/facebook-games-evidence-of-doom-of-western-civilization/568866 "2011-01-25T02:00:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2011, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/facebook-games-evidence-of-doom-of-western-civilization/568866/21 "2011-01-25T18:12:32Z")
Maybe you should lay off the “god games” for a while. ---
**Author:** ![Trepa\_Mayfield](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/edb3f5/32.png) [@Trepa\_Mayfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trepa_Mayfield)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2011, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/facebook-games-evidence-of-doom-of-western-civilization/568866/22 "2011-01-25T18:20:38Z")
> [@Wogglebug](#): > > It’s that kind of creative activity I feel the Facebook games stifle. My challenge to anyone in the discussion who is an avid player of: chess, poker, SimCity, D&D, or first person shooters is to try three of the most popular Facebook games, and see how long you can stomach them. In fairness, there are people who enjoy mouse-clicking, as in FarmVille, a grid (literally) 500 times in 5 minutes, several times a day. But that seems like a compulsive disorder that could be directed toward cleaning house … or tending a real garden. They are, I agree, badly designed, soul-sucking games that have nothing but a base profit motive, introducing mass tedium in order to encourage the player to spend money to bypass them. I also hate the Zynga games with a passion. But man, you are presenting literally the _worst_ arguments against them that I have ever seen. > [@Wogglebug](#): > > Do the Facebook games, oppositely, teach bad lessons about life? I’d argue they do in several ways. To take a simple example, FarmVille. Crops don’t grow in any realistic amount of time, are all cultivated the same way, all have 100% yield, all can be sold immediately, all can be replanted immediately. This is a stupid argument. Shocking: a video game that isn’t exactly like real life. Stop the presses! Next, are you going to tell me men can’t jump three times their height, or that the entire earth isn’t made out of cubes? ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2011, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/facebook-games-evidence-of-doom-of-western-civilization/568866/23 "2011-01-25T18:31:44Z")
> [@pedescribe](#): > > This is a stupid argument. Shocking: a video game that isn’t exactly like real life. Stop the presses! Next, are you going to tell me men can’t jump three times their height, or that the entire earth isn’t made out of cubes? Excitebike is still real though, right? ---
**Author:** ![Fuzzy\_Dunlop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/848f3c/32.png) [@Fuzzy\_Dunlop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuzzy_Dunlop)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2011, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/facebook-games-evidence-of-doom-of-western-civilization/568866/24 "2011-01-25T18:35:45Z")
> [@Wogglebug](#): > > Generally, the purpose of CityVille is to optimize limited resources of space and production. This sounds absolutely horrible. When everybody chooses to spend their scant free time optimizing [imaginary] limited resources of space and production without any regard to aesthetics, that will be evidence of the end of civilization. Do musicals piss you off because they should be communicating the story as efficiently as possible? ---
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2011, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/facebook-games-evidence-of-doom-of-western-civilization/568866/25 "2011-01-25T18:52:56Z")
> [@Wogglebug](#): > > What I’m suggesting is that these games, played by millions, seem to be banal, even compared with Monopoly and solitaire. Most entertainment of any sort is banal. Most movies are banal. Most television is banal. Most popular music is banal. Most books are banal, though your odds of getting something worthwhile are slightly better with a book than with anything else. I used to spend a lot of time bashing lousy books, games, movies, and such on the internet and worrying about the effect that those things would have on people. Then one day I realized that it’s all entertainment. Much of it is stupid, but so what? Smart people sometimes like stupid entertainment. I sometimes do and I’m sure you do to. Now you may well be right about western civilization being doomed, but you’d find better evidence for it elsewhere, such as on Fox News Channel. People actually _believe_ that stuff. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2011, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/facebook-games-evidence-of-doom-of-western-civilization/568866/26 "2011-01-25T19:08:31Z")
When I play SimCity, I do it for fun. I build a city to look nice, not to maximize space ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2011, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/facebook-games-evidence-of-doom-of-western-civilization/568866/27 "2011-01-25T20:45:08Z")
> [@Wogglebug](#): > > 1. It also ignores the fact – which I think is more relevant than it first appears – that one of the biggest job opportunities I have is to work for Zynga. Programming trashy games, however, wouldn’t do much for my career. I.e., I _can’t_ get away from Zynga’s influence. Yeah, God knows. if there’s one thing that is the kiss of death on a resume, it’s having worked for a popular and profitable company. ---
**Author:** ![Rachellelogram](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rachellelogram/32/8689_2.png) [@Rachellelogram](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rachellelogram)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2011, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/facebook-games-evidence-of-doom-of-western-civilization/568866/28 "2011-01-25T21:50:41Z")
> [@Wogglebug](#): > > It’s just a _tiiiiiny_ bit difficult to know where to start responding. Yours would have to qualify as one of the most irrational, rambling posts I’ve read … in 1,000s of Straight Dope posts. You disagree with my clear, readable, logical arguments so you try to insult my style? Not very creative or intelligent. You’re clearly anti-zynga. **You said that.** You’re pissed that they have job opportunities for you? Nobody’s making you take them. Find a facebook community to rant on in the future, instead of doing it here. If anyone’s radiating the crazy, it’s hella not me. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2011, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/facebook-games-evidence-of-doom-of-western-civilization/568866/29 "2011-01-25T23:34:26Z")
> [@rachelellogram](#): > > You disagree with my clear, readable, logical arguments so you try to insult my style? Not very creative or intelligent. > > You’re clearly anti-zynga. **You said that.** You’re pissed that they have job opportunities for you? Nobody’s making you take them. > > Find a facebook community to rant on in the future, instead of doing it here. If anyone’s radiating the crazy, it’s hella not me. Stop saying ‘hella’ ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2011, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/facebook-games-evidence-of-doom-of-western-civilization/568866/30 "2011-01-26T00:31:15Z")
Moving thread from IMHO to The Game Room. ---
**Author:** ![Palooka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/palooka/32/2902_2.png) [@Palooka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Palooka)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2011, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/facebook-games-evidence-of-doom-of-western-civilization/568866/31 "2011-01-26T04:52:46Z")
> [@rachelellogram](#): > > You disagree with my clear, readable, logical arguments so you try to insult my style? Not very creative or intelligent. Hello. When I read through this thread, your post did stand out as being rife with nonsense. The following aspects did not make sense to me: **The Rhetorical Questions** : The first portion of the post contains a number of rhetorical questions. You begun well enough with the criticism that **Wogglebug** ’s friends and family do not represent the entirety of Western Civilization, which is almost certainly true. Perhaps **Wogglebug** is wrong in his claims and the vast majority of the CityVille players play in a manner that demonstrates intelligence and it just happens that **Wogglebug** ’s friends don’t. Unfortunately, none of the other questions appear rationally connected to the discussion. The OP makes no claim that the USA is the only civilized country in the world. It isn’t relevant to his claim that Zygna games indicate a lack of cognitive ability. Likewise, I don’t understand what relevance people without a computer has to his point. A Go player scoffing at The Sims is irrelevant to the OP’s claim, probably. It’s hard to tell since I don’t know what arguments the Go player has or what The Sims indicates about anything. **The rest of it** : That you can optimize your gameplay by simply copying the solution from someone is faulty. It assumes that such a source exists, which may be the case. No evidence is presented for it. I think that the impulse that creates the “answer” in the first place indicates intelligent players. I don’t think that even matters though, because it isn’t relevant. The scenario presented is that players are making no efforts to optimize their gameplay or understand the game’s systems. The question of the thread is “What does this inability or unwillingness to optimize their play indicate of the players?” not “Does optimizing your gameplay mean you’re intelligent?” The OP is not saying that Zygna games are causing anything to happen. He is saying that a state exists and then asks what meaning does that state have. The correlation/causation objection is misplaced. Trying to score points by insulting someone isn’t effective discussion. Anyway, that’s why I think your post isn’t nearly as clear or logical as you think. I think the fundamental problem is that you left too many blanks for the reader to fill in. The reader is not always on the same wavelength as you. It would help if you wrote full explanations instead of relied on just undermining questions. Cheers. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2011, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/facebook-games-evidence-of-doom-of-western-civilization/568866/32 "2011-01-26T18:23:20Z")
Another game designer and I had an interesting discussion with one of our programmers yesterday about Super Smash Brothers. The programmer maintained it was a bad game because the control was too loose and the play was too chaotic. We pointed out that there were all sorts of reasons why loose controls and random chaos might actually be a GOOD thing in a casual party game. It levels the playing field a bit between experienced and novice players, for example, and it gives people a reason to not feel too bad about losing. If you come across a “bad game” that a lot of people love to play, that’s probably an indication that your understanding of play isn’t as thorough as you think it is. There are lots of ways to play besides “find the optimal path to victory”. I personally don’t like most of the games on Facebook. But I do understand what their appeal is and how they’re providing an entertaining experience for their players. ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2011, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/facebook-games-evidence-of-doom-of-western-civilization/568866/33 "2011-01-26T18:31:34Z")
Facebook Scrabble \>\> all that shit. I played Farmville for a while. It became incredibly boring after about 2 weeks. I can’t imagine getting sucked into another one like that. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/facebook-games-evidence-of-doom-of-western-civilization/568866.md?page=1)