# Facial wrinkling and race **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 11, 2010, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/facial-wrinkling-and-race/524512 "2010-01-11T15:24:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![StarvingButStrong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/starvingbutstrong/32/335_2.png) [@StarvingButStrong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StarvingButStrong)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2010, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/facial-wrinkling-and-race/524512/1 "2010-01-11T15:24:36Z")
Last year I finally attended one of my High School reunions. The mumble-ty one. šŸ˜‰ Anyway, this was the first time Iā€™d seen many of these people in ages, and after a bit I started noticing how much younger the black girls looked than the whte ones, facially I mean. (Whoops. Of course weā€™re all women now, itā€™s just in my mind we remain ā€˜girld.ā€™) Maybe it was observer error, but I donā€™t think so. The white women simply had way more wrinkles ā€“ around the eyes, the mouth, the forehead. And besides not having as many wrinkles, the black womenā€™s skin looked better ā€“ smoother and softer and, oh, just _younger._ I was amused (in a nasty way, bad me!) that the women who looked oldest and most worn were exactly the blonde goddess who had ruled socially. Soā€¦ is this is generally true, does it all go down to sun damage? As in, darker skin is naturally better protected from the sun? ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2010, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/facial-wrinkling-and-race/524512/2 "2010-01-11T15:52:41Z")
Yes, the difference in wrinkling between types of complexions is a documented phenomenon; see p. 435 of Wilhelm et al., Bioengineering of the skin: skin imaging and analysis (on Googlebooks): > [@](#): > > [E]xpression of facial wrinkling increased commensurate with age in all racial groups. There were, however, differences in relative expression between racial groups, with wrinkling increasing in the order East Asians \< Latinos = African-Americans \< Caucasians. Interestingly, it isnā€™t just amount of melanin or skin darkness that determines amount of wrinkling, since lighter-skinned East Asians tend to express less wrinkling than darker-skinned African-Americans. [This article](http://ibmi.mf.uni-lj.si/acta-apa/acta-apa-02-3/derma3-1cl.html) notes, > [@](#): > > A unique study of over 3000 people from five ethnic groups (Africa, American, East Asian, Caucasian, Indian Asian and Latino) of different ages has revealed age-dependent changes of the skin (wrinkles, hyperpigmentation and pores). The mean fraction of the face area covered with wrinkles is significantly smaller in African Americans than in Caucasians, but East Asians have the smallest wrinkled area at any given age. The authors suggest that racial differences in other genetic factors besides skin pigmentation, such as DNA repair, are important in determining the development of skin wrinkles. African Americans have more hyperpigmented spots and facial pores than other racial groups. Caucasians have significantly les well hydrated skin than African Americans, East Asians and Latinos (191). The relationship between skin phototype and deep and fine wrinkle scores on the faces of 230 Japanese subjects shows that sunlight-sensitive subjects have deeper wrinkles.(192). The same article also gets into the biological causes of wrinkling: > [@](#): > > Principal causes of wrinkling are ageing and excessive exposure to UV rays. Wrinkles are the expression of the accumulation of modifications at different levels of the skin. Development of so-called fine wrinkles begins to take place in the thirties, reaching a peak in the fifties, while deep wrinkles increase in the fifties. Little is known about the exact histological changes underlying wrinkle formation. Changes in collagen type I, III, type IV and VII at the DEJ have been recorded (157-160). Collagen VI, concentrated in the papillary dermis immediately below the dermal-epidermal junction is similar in photoprotected and photoaged skin (159). Some fibroblasts which are accumulating damages are less stimulated by surrounding ascorbic acid, resulting in a decrease of collagen and a loss of dermis density. Very recently, in aged fibroblasts from photoexposed zones, a decrease of the intracellular transport of pericellular ascorbic acid has been proposed in wrinkle formation and ellagic acid derivatives have been proposed to overturn the phenomenon (161; Marc Dumas, personal communication). I hope that paragraph conveyed more to you than it did to me! Seriously, that looks like the place to start if you want information about skin ageing. ---
**Author:** ![mo50](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8797f3/32.png) [@mo50](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mo50)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2010, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/facial-wrinkling-and-race/524512/3 "2010-01-11T16:10:33Z")
Iā€™ve heard African American people use the expression ā€œblack donā€™t crackā€. It really is amazing how young older black people can look. Iā€™ve met some in their 60ā€™s-70ā€™s, & even older, take away any gray hair & they could pass for 40-something. Iā€™ve also noticed Asian people seem to take greater care in avoiding sun exposure, utilizing umbrellas, newspapers, anything to hold up & keep sun off the face, whereas many whites still go out of their way to get sun, go to tanning beds, etc., despite all the warnings about skin damage/cancer/aging, & I guess it shows in the long run \*\*. ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2010, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/facial-wrinkling-and-race/524512/4 "2010-01-11T16:46:27Z")
I remember once uh, walking through the room while my mom was watching Oprah, and they had an aging specialist on and Oprah and the other black lady on the show were shocked to hear that white women often lose their lips as they get older. It had absolutely never occurred to them. That same show had a good explanation of a dichotomy Iā€™ve always noticed - some people are ā€œsinkersā€ and some people are ā€œsaggersā€ when you get old, and itā€™s two completely different problems. I know Iā€™m going to be a sinker - I take after my dadā€™s side of the family and itā€™s sinking all the way. I guess I should bid a fond farewell to my lips before long, too - the whole familyā€™s short on lip to begin with, and my elderly aunts look like angry snapping turtles. ---
**Author:** ![MeanOldLady](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanoldlady/32/10737_2.png) [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2010, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/facial-wrinkling-and-race/524512/5 "2010-01-11T16:47:51Z")
> [@mo50](#): > > Iā€™ve heard African American people use the expression ā€œblack donā€™t crackā€. I specifically came into this thread to use the phrase ā€œblack donā€™t crack.ā€ Anecdotally (Iā€™m black), most of my white friends think my parents look roughly 20 years younger than they are. I think they look their age. Once Iā€™m dealing with the age 35+ crowd, when guessing a white womanā€™s age, I consider how old the person looks to me, then subtract about 15 years. This usually works. 35 and under, Iā€™ve found, everyoneā€™s age more or less looks the same. ---
**Author:** ![Mehitabel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8797f3/32.png) [@Mehitabel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mehitabel)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2010, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/facial-wrinkling-and-race/524512/6 "2010-01-11T17:36:10Z")
Isnā€™t there also a larger distribution of fat under the skin in some groups? ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2010, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/facial-wrinkling-and-race/524512/7 "2010-01-11T18:14:56Z")
> [@mo50](#): > > Iā€™ve heard African American people use the expression ā€œblack donā€™t crackā€. It really is amazing how young older black people can look. Iā€™ve met some in their 60ā€™s-70ā€™s, & even older, take away any gray hair & they could pass for 40-something. **Iā€™ve also noticed Asian people seem to take greater care in avoiding sun exposure, utilizing umbrellas, newspapers, anything to hold up & keep sun off the face,** whereas many whites still go out of their way to get sun, go to tanning beds, etc., despite all the warnings about skin damage/cancer/aging, & I guess it shows in the long run \*\*. Being Asian, I can attest to that. It seems that only Asian women use those face visors that cover up their entire face when going out. They wear big hats when walking in the sun and use sunscreen whenever they have to be outside for more than 15 mins. Iā€™ve never seen a non-Asian do that. The behavior seems limited only to Asian women ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2010, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/facial-wrinkling-and-race/524512/8 "2010-01-11T20:36:49Z")
> [@Zsofia](#): > > [ā€¦]That same show had a good explanation of a dichotomy Iā€™ve always noticed - some people are ā€œsinkersā€ and some people are ā€œsaggersā€ when you get old, and itā€™s two completely different problems. I know Iā€™m going to be a sinker - I take after my dadā€™s side of the family and itā€™s sinking all the way. I guess I should bid a fond farewell to my lips before long, too - the whole familyā€™s short on lip to begin with, and my elderly aunts look like angry snapping turtles. whatā€™s the difference between sinking and sagging? ---
**Author:** ![Markxxx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5daacb/32.png) [@Markxxx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Markxxx)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2010, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/facial-wrinkling-and-race/524512/9 "2010-01-11T20:40:09Z")
Blacks also have a lot less cellulite than white women do ---
**Author:** ![Surly\_Chick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ec9cab/32.png) [@Surly\_Chick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Surly_Chick)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2010, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/facial-wrinkling-and-race/524512/10 "2010-01-11T20:45:33Z")
I just saw a former co-worker of mine whom I havenā€™t seen in almost 10 years. Sheā€™s black and I swear to Og, she hasnā€™t aged a day. Sheā€™s in her mid-sixties so she should at least have **some** wrinkles dammit! ---
**Author:** ![zweisamkeit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zweisamkeit/32/4360_2.png) [@zweisamkeit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zweisamkeit)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2010, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/facial-wrinkling-and-race/524512/11 "2010-01-11T21:51:03Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > Being Asian, I can attest to that. It seems that only Asian women use those face visors that cover up their entire face when going out. They wear big hats when walking in the sun and use sunscreen whenever they have to be outside for more than 15 mins. Iā€™ve never seen a non-Asian do that. The behavior seems limited only to Asian women I do! But thatā€™s because Iā€™m white-white and want to keep my skin looking as young as it can for as long as possible. ---
**Author:** ![StarvingButStrong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/starvingbutstrong/32/335_2.png) [@StarvingButStrong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StarvingButStrong)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2010, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/facial-wrinkling-and-race/524512/12 "2010-01-12T00:43:27Z")
Hmm. Iā€™m pretty fair skinned, but I hate being hot and sweaty so Iā€™ve never done any sunbathing or spent a lot of time out in the sun. Maybe thatā€™ll spare me from wrinkles for a few extra years. I wondered about fatness, too. I mean, if youā€™re skin is stretched tight over a layer of fat, wrinkles canā€™t set in as easily, yes? ---
**Author:** ![HazelNutCoffee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@HazelNutCoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HazelNutCoffee)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2010, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/facial-wrinkling-and-race/524512/13 "2010-01-12T00:55:38Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > Being Asian, I can attest to that. It seems that only Asian women use those face visors that cover up their entire face when going out. They wear big hats when walking in the sun and use sunscreen whenever they have to be outside for more than 15 mins. Iā€™ve never seen a non-Asian do that. The behavior seems limited only to Asian women Iā€™d say older Asian women. Some younger women do worry about staying pale, but they usually just carry around parasols in the summer (Iā€™m not kidding). The visors are limited to our moms. šŸ˜‰ Westernization is slowly convincing people that tanning can also be attractive, but the older generation remains unconvinced. ---
**Author:** ![rhubarbarin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/eb9ed0/32.png) [@rhubarbarin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rhubarbarin)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2010, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/facial-wrinkling-and-race/524512/14 "2010-01-12T21:10:57Z")
Itā€™s definately not all due to skin lightness or sun exposure. Iā€™ve done some reading about this. I am inclined to think that genetics play the largest role and diet is the other main factor. My family ages well for white people, but we have pale dry skin and get a lot of fine lines. While I still look really young for my age I have more fine lines in close-up at age 24 than my (Italian, olive-skinned) boyfriend does at 41. Iā€™ll take them over sagging, though. ---
**Author:** ![carter6](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/77aa72/32.png) [@carter6](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carter6)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2010, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/facial-wrinkling-and-race/524512/15 "2010-01-13T03:57:54Z")
Yes, IMHO as a pale pale white person itā€™s true that we wrinkle earlier. I am obsessed with sunscreen and even copy the aforementioned Asian practice of walking around under an umbrella when itā€™s sunny but I still have noticeable wrinkles and Iā€™m 26. I think part of it is that our skin has less protection in the form of pigmentation, and part of it is just that wrinkles show up more easily on light-colored things (think of shirts). I was recently in Vietnam and our tour guide (who was my own age) was asking all of our ages and when he got to me he seemed shocked and said, ā€œReally? I can never tell the ages of white people.ā€ Hehe. I understand where heā€™s coming from, butā€¦ thanks for the subtlety. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![TheTerribleTako](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ba8739/32.png) [@TheTerribleTako](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheTerribleTako)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2010, 7:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/facial-wrinkling-and-race/524512/16 "2010-01-13T07:12:04Z")
Besides avoiding the sun through umbrellas and hats, thereā€™s also the fact that Asian women tend to use facial creams religiously. Every single one of my momā€™s friends have a specific expensive brand of cream they slather on twice daily. For as long as I can remember, my mom has given me a bottle of facial lotion to use while admonishing me that skin needed to be preserved while young. So thereā€™s a bit of obsessiveness with youthful, non-wrinkled skin there.