# Fact-checkers claim Hillary is most accurate **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [March 28, 2016, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fact-checkers-claim-hillary-is-most-accurate/750432 "2016-03-28T04:01:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2016, 11:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fact-checkers-claim-hillary-is-most-accurate/750432/21 "2016-03-29T11:21:38Z")
…How do we go from “number of lies” to “most honest”? If all a candidate ever lies about is whether or not Iraq has nuclear weapons, it’s still fair to say that their lies had an awful lot more impact than the president who told a hundred lies about whether or not he slept with any given intern. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2016, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fact-checkers-claim-hillary-is-most-accurate/750432/22 "2016-03-29T12:25:05Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Except for Trump, there are no candidates less truthful than Hillary Clinton. The facts be damned, you _know_ what’s true! ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2016, 12:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fact-checkers-claim-hillary-is-most-accurate/750432/23 "2016-03-29T12:34:41Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > The facts be damned, you _know_ what’s true! **adaher** is able to read liberals’ minds, whether they’re holding political office or just posters at the Dope. Many other conservative Dopers seem to have the same super-power. It’s uncanny. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2016, 12:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fact-checkers-claim-hillary-is-most-accurate/750432/24 "2016-03-29T12:41:41Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Except for Trump, there are no candidates less truthful than Hillary Clinton. Rating: Mostly False ---
**Author:** ![bengangmo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@bengangmo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bengangmo)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2016, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fact-checkers-claim-hillary-is-most-accurate/750432/25 "2016-03-29T12:59:25Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > By that standard, Bush could have assured Americans that “soldiers won’t be killed in Iraq”, and he would have been telling the truth, since the vast majority of soldiers deployed to Iraq did not get killed. > > It was a lie of the year because not only was it not true, but he knew it wasn’t true. Just like he knew that an individual mandate was necessary, but it was useful as a political position to distinguish himself from Clinton. > > There’s a huge moral chasm between getting stuff wrong because you didn’t fact check well enough or because you wish it was true and hope it’s true, and just saying something you know not to be true because you need to trick Americans into backing your plans. Actually I would still rate it as a mostly true statement. Much like … In America you can buy any car you like… Yeah you can, subject to the myriad of laws governing car safety etc… ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2016, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fact-checkers-claim-hillary-is-most-accurate/750432/26 "2016-03-29T13:09:09Z")
> [@furt](#): > > Indeed … all candidates make thousands of statements during the course of a campaign. Why are only a few dozen from each candidate being handpicked for the “fact check” treatment? Why, it almost makes you think the whole thing is just an arbitrary process… The statements are likely picked because someone, somewhere says “that’s wrong!” ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2016, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fact-checkers-claim-hillary-is-most-accurate/750432/27 "2016-03-29T13:10:31Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Except for Trump, there are no candidates less truthful than Hillary Clinton. That statement is untrue, as this thread proved in the OP. Jeez, adaher, way to set yourself up. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2016, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fact-checkers-claim-hillary-is-most-accurate/750432/28 "2016-03-29T13:14:41Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > By that standard, Bush could have assured Americans that “soldiers won’t be killed in Iraq”, and he would have been telling the truth, since the vast majority of soldiers deployed to Iraq did not get killed. Bad analogy. The point of him saying “you can keep your health plan” was that the government wasn’t going to create a single-payer or govenrment-run plan to force people into. It wasn’t going to limit choices. It was a simplified way of saying that. Simplification can backfire sometimes, but normally we give that a pass. So it has nothing to do with meaning “most of you can keep your health plan.” What Obama meant was “if your health plan is adequate and not a sham plan, you can keep it.” It would be more like Bush saying “soldiers won’t be killed in Iraq” and then no soldier dies in combat, but a few die from truck accidents or food poisoning. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2016, 11:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fact-checkers-claim-hillary-is-most-accurate/750432/29 "2016-03-30T11:23:23Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > That statement is untrue, as this thread proved in the OP. > > Jeez, adaher, way to set yourself up. Determining who is and is not honest is not something one can measure with data. The public is a better judge of that than anyone else, and guess who the public things is the least honest and trustworthy? > **[Trump and Clinton are leading the polls even though most Americans don't...](https://www.businessinsider.com/poll-hillary-clinton-donald-trump-trustworthy-honest-2015-7)** > > This isn't good news for her. Next thing you know, someone will trot out data showing who is smarter, more moral, and prettier. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2016, 11:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fact-checkers-claim-hillary-is-most-accurate/750432/30 "2016-03-30T11:30:26Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Determining who is and is not honest is not something one can measure with data. The public is a better judge of that than anyone else, and guess who the public things is the least honest and trustworthy? > > [Poll: Hillary Clinton, Donald Trump About As Trustworthy, Honest - Business Insider](http://www.businessinsider.com/poll-hillary-clinton-donald-trump-trustworthy-honest-2015-7) > > Next thing you know, someone will trot out data showing who is smarter, more moral, and prettier. We can measure factual accuracy with data, and that at least has some overlap with honesty, as well as judgment and analytical skills. So by this measure of honesty, judgment, and analytical skills, Hillary is far, far above her Republican opponents and critics, as is Obama. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2016, 11:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fact-checkers-claim-hillary-is-most-accurate/750432/31 "2016-03-30T11:34:13Z")
Secondly, the fact check sites don’t claim what the OP claims. That’s entirely his reasoning. When this is the kind of thing they fact check: > **[PolitiFact - John Kasich misquotes Truman on dogs, wins Ohio anyway](https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2016/mar/17/john-kasich/john-kasich-misquotes-truman-wins-ohio-anyway/)** > > Ohio Gov. John Kasich fell into a common trap while campaigning in his home state of Ohio the day before the primary ele Kasich got this quote wrong, “If you want a friend in Washington, buy a dog.” He attributed it to Truman. What a liar. CAn’t trust him in office. That is obviously exactly the same as Clinton’s consistent misrepresentations of Bernie Sanders’ record: > **[PolitiFact - Hillary Clinton wrongly says Bernie Sanders wants to delay the...](https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2016/mar/10/hillary-clinton/hillary-clinton-says-bernie-sanders-wants-delay-cl/)** > > Debating in a city where rising sea levels are a concern, Hillary Clinton suggested Bernie Sanders wants to set back a m A better metric is the Daily Show, actually. Kasich getting a quoter wrong is not all that cringeworthy. Hillary Clinton saying, “Where was Bernie Sanders when I was fighting for health care in 1994” when he was literally standing right behind her, now that’s a howler. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2016, 11:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fact-checkers-claim-hillary-is-most-accurate/750432/32 "2016-03-30T11:35:15Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > We can measure factual accuracy with data, and that at least has some overlap with honesty, as well as judgment and analytical skills. > > So by this measure of honesty, judgment, and analytical skills, Hillary is far, far above her Republican opponents and critics, as is Obama. The type of things fact check sites check have more to do with staff quality. It’s like saying that an author is better than another author if there are fewer grammatical errors in his books. No, that says more about his editor and/or spell checker than the quality of his writing. Hillary Clinton has the best and most experienced people on her campaign. If you want to use THAT as a good metric for how she’ll do as President, there’s a case to be made for that, since a Presidency can succeed or fail on the quality of the people around the President. But let’s not call one candidate more honest than another because her fact checkers and scriptwriters are better at their jobs than Sanders’ or Kasich’s. Trump doesn’t even bother with that stuff, so it’s like comparing apples and oranges with him. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2016, 11:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fact-checkers-claim-hillary-is-most-accurate/750432/33 "2016-03-30T11:40:36Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > The type of things fact check sites check have more to do with staff quality. It’s like saying that an author is better than another author if there are fewer grammatical errors in his books. No, that says more about his editor and/or spell checker than the quality of his writing. Hillary Clinton has the best and most experienced people on her campaign. If you want to use THAT as a good metric for how she’ll do as President, there’s a case to be made for that, since a Presidency can succeed or fail on the quality of the people around the President. But let’s not call one candidate more honest than another because her fact checkers and scriptwriters are better at their jobs than Sanders’ or Kasich’s. Trump doesn’t even bother with that stuff, so it’s like comparing apples and oranges with him. Maybe that’s a part of it, but that’s also a measurement of good judgment and analytical skills – smart and crafty candidates will have good staffs. I wouldn’t call Hillary more honest than Bernie or Obama, necessarily, but I think she’s way more honest than Cruz and Trump, and from what I know of him, Kasich too. Fact checking is part of my analysis – the rest is my own opinion and judgment. Yours may differ. Both of us may be influenced by bias. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2016, 11:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fact-checkers-claim-hillary-is-most-accurate/750432/34 "2016-03-30T11:41:02Z")
I’d note that when you look at Clinton’s falsehoods, they are far from random. They just happen to be almost universally very beneficial to her campaign if they are believed by enough people. Which tells me that she and her staff knew they were false, but judged them worth saying anyway. If you look at the false statements of other candidates, it’s pretty random stuff by comparison. Clinton’s, on the other hand, are all pretty explosive. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2016, 11:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fact-checkers-claim-hillary-is-most-accurate/750432/35 "2016-03-30T11:45:37Z")
So your argument is that she’s smart enough to manage her message rather than just blurting out any old lie that passes through her head? By that metric I’d much rather have her as President than any of the blurters. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2016, 11:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fact-checkers-claim-hillary-is-most-accurate/750432/36 "2016-03-30T11:51:07Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > The type of things fact check sites check have more to do with staff quality. It’s like saying that an author is better than another author if there are fewer grammatical errors in his books. No, that says more about his editor and/or spell checker than the quality of his writing. Hillary Clinton has the best and most experienced people on her campaign. If you want to use THAT as a good metric for how she’ll do as President, there’s a case to be made for that, since a Presidency can succeed or fail on the quality of the people around the President. But let’s not call one candidate more honest than another because her fact checkers and scriptwriters are better at their jobs than Sanders’ or Kasich’s. Trump doesn’t even bother with that stuff, so it’s like comparing apples and oranges with him. I don’t live in your country but if I did, I would read what you wrote as being best summarised as “vote for Clinton, she’s more competent”. And your last sentence I read as “it’s not fair to judge Trump as not being good at baseball given that he doesn’t play baseball”. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2016, 11:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fact-checkers-claim-hillary-is-most-accurate/750432/37 "2016-03-30T11:52:44Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > I’d note that when you look at Clinton’s falsehoods, they are far from random. They just happen to be almost universally very beneficial to her campaign if they are believed by enough people. Which tells me that she and her staff knew they were false, but judged them worth saying anyway. > > If you look at the false statements of other candidates, it’s pretty random stuff by comparison. Clinton’s, on the other hand, are all pretty explosive. I don’t accept that this is true without _a lot_ of cites. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2016, 11:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fact-checkers-claim-hillary-is-most-accurate/750432/38 "2016-03-30T11:57:37Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > So your argument is that she’s smart enough to manage her message rather than just blurting out any old lie that passes through her head? By that metric I’d much rather have her as President than any of the blurters. I don’t think anyone would argue that she’s not the most scripted and calculated of the candidates. If that’s what you’re looking for, she’s not only your first choice now, she should have been your first choice in 2008. Oddly enough, the public doesn’t rate such skills all that highly. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2016, 12:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fact-checkers-claim-hillary-is-most-accurate/750432/39 "2016-03-30T12:01:45Z")
The cites are in the OP: Just to take the first few false statements: “Sanders wants to delay implementing the Clean Power Plan” “You are three times more likely to get a mortgage if you’re white than if you’re a minority” “We have more jobs in solar than in oil” “I’m the only candidate who has a plan to defeat ISIS” “Every piece of legislation I ever introduced had a Republican co-sponsor” These are all statements that are pretty advantageous to say, whether true or not. Not anywhere near the category of misquoting Truman harmlessly. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2016, 12:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fact-checkers-claim-hillary-is-most-accurate/750432/40 "2016-03-30T12:14:12Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > The cites are in the OP: Just to take the first few false statements: > > “Sanders wants to delay implementing the Clean Power Plan” > > “You are three times more likely to get a mortgage if you’re white than if you’re a minority” > > “We have more jobs in solar than in oil” > > “I’m the only candidate who has a plan to defeat ISIS” > > “Every piece of legislation I ever introduced had a Republican co-sponsor” > > These are all statements that are pretty advantageous to say, whether true or not. Not anywhere near the category of misquoting Truman harmlessly. Kasich says lots of things that are supposed to help him politically too. All politicians do. That’s kind of an enormous part of politics. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fact-checkers-claim-hillary-is-most-accurate/750432.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fact-checkers-claim-hillary-is-most-accurate/750432.md?page=3)