# Facts vs. Opinions in Great Debates **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [May 8, 2016, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/facts-vs-opinions-in-great-debates/754347 "2016-05-08T22:37:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2016, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/facts-vs-opinions-in-great-debates/754347/21 "2016-05-09T00:15:57Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > If I’m ever tempted to moderate GD someone hit me with something heavy. Is a Peterbilt heavy enough? 😛 ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2016, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/facts-vs-opinions-in-great-debates/754347/22 "2016-05-09T00:20:12Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > This statement is not true. > > If you point out the facts that demonstrate that the opinion is false, you will draw no notice from the Mods. > > If you make a personal attack on a poster because your opinion of what is a fact differs from theirs, you will draw the attention of the Mods. if you then make an issue of launching repeated personal attacks against posters because your opinion of what is a fact differs from theirs, you will be guilty of hijacking the thread, which will garner Mod attention. Facts are not up to opinion. Do you disagree? ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2016, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/facts-vs-opinions-in-great-debates/754347/23 "2016-05-09T00:20:24Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > > [@running\_coach](#): > > > > They’re both culturally backward, Southern states among several others. > > > > Pretty easy mistake to make. > > Again with the opinions, instead of facts. Is that what the TPTB are looking for in Great Debates? Fact: Both Georgia and Kentucky are Southern states. Facr: Both Georgia and Kentucky have recent history of either passing discriminatory legislation or failing to enforce civil rights legislation. Now, you may fuss over the phrase “culturally backward,” but for the purpose of this discussion, it indicates a specific culture that is recognized, (even if not agreed to), by the overwhelming majority of posters to this board. Whining about “opinion” because you want to set up a special definition of the word in order to make your complaint seem legitimate when the meaning of the statement is quite clear is just silly posturing on your part. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2016, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/facts-vs-opinions-in-great-debates/754347/24 "2016-05-09T00:22:40Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > Facts are not up to opinion. Do you disagree? Facts are not opinion. That is not in questuion. Your question makes no sense in the context of either the discussion about which you are complaining or this discussion. What does “up to” mean in the context of one more of your one-liners? ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2016, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/facts-vs-opinions-in-great-debates/754347/25 "2016-05-09T00:28:47Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > . Now, you may fuss over the phrase “culturally backward,” but for the purpose of this discussion, it indicates a specific culture that is recognized, (even if not agreed to), by the overwhelming majority of posters to this board. Whining about “opinion” because you want to set up a special definition of the word in order to make your complaint seem legitimate when the meaning of the statement is quite clear is just silly posturing on your part. The opinion of the “overwhelming majority of this board” is not relevant. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2016, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/facts-vs-opinions-in-great-debates/754347/26 "2016-05-09T00:31:23Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > The opinion of the “overwhelming majority of this board” is not relevant. Is that a fact or an opinion? And you forgot to ask **tom** what a “questuion” is. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2016, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/facts-vs-opinions-in-great-debates/754347/27 "2016-05-09T00:33:23Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > What does “up to” mean in the context of one more of your one-liners? I misspoke. Facts are not up to debate. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2016, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/facts-vs-opinions-in-great-debates/754347/28 "2016-05-09T00:44:12Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > If I’m ever tempted to moderate GD someone hit me with something heavy. If I hit you hard enough do you volunteer? ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2016, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/facts-vs-opinions-in-great-debates/754347/29 "2016-05-09T00:45:35Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > I misspoke. Facts are not up to debate. In the words of Kenny Rogers; _You’ve got to know when to hold 'em Know when to fold 'em Know when to walk away And know when to run_ Time to fold them and walk away friend. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2016, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/facts-vs-opinions-in-great-debates/754347/30 "2016-05-09T00:49:14Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > I misspoke. Facts are not up to debate. We seek debates in Great Debates. In a debate, two or more people discuss a topic. Generally, they have differing views on the topic and, under ideal conditions, can share viewpoints until consensus is reached and greater understanding is had by all. And I’d like a pony. In Great Debates, facts are indeed up for debate as it is frequently unclear what the facts actually are. Sometimes that means endless hairsplitting and sometimes that means that it is possible to find citations that support different version of events and such. Again, opinions are the very basis of Great Debates and - at times - the debate is about opinion without grounding in fact. Witnessing threads, for example, are entirely opinion without any provable citation possible. The witnessers - who are specifically directed at Great Debates - are under no requirement to provide proof of their assertions. So both opinions and facts are allowable in Great Debates. We do occasionally run into an issue where posters confuse the two and it can lead to long, LONG threads without resolution. But really, that hardly ever happens, right? Right? ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2016, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/facts-vs-opinions-in-great-debates/754347/31 "2016-05-09T00:49:48Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > The opinion of the “overwhelming majority of this board” is not relevant. It absolutely is. You are trying to weasel out of a situation where the discussion was clear. The clarity is based on language. Language is not a God-given set of absolute rules, but a series of conventions in which multiple speakers agree on the meanings of words in the syntax in which they are presented. If an overwhelming majority of speakers/readers/posters on this board recognize the meaning of the phrase “culturally backward” in the context of a discussion of civil rights in the U.S. in the early 21st century, then that is, by convention, what the language indicates. If you believe that it means something different, that is just your (unsupported) opinion. You really need to stick to facts. = = = At any rate, the question posed in the OP has been answered and I have no desire to engage in rules lawyering with you just so that you can hijack threads in GD. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2016, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/facts-vs-opinions-in-great-debates/754347/32 "2016-05-09T00:51:12Z")
Also, we very much want honest debate. Posters that develop the habit dishonestly debating - red herrings, continuing to affirm a cite after it’s been soundly disproven and so forth - run the risk of drawing the ire of the kind and loving moderators. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2016, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/facts-vs-opinions-in-great-debates/754347/33 "2016-05-09T00:53:52Z")
Kentucky is not Georgia. New York is not New Jersey. A sub-tropical depression is not a HURRICANE! Posting false information is bullshit, in any forum, IMO of course. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2016, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/facts-vs-opinions-in-great-debates/754347/34 "2016-05-09T00:54:46Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > The only heavy thing around here is a banhammer. I don’t think any of us are allowed to touch it. You are only allowed to wield it if you are worthy. Sort of like Thor’s hammer. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2016, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/facts-vs-opinions-in-great-debates/754347/35 "2016-05-09T00:56:10Z")
People make mistakes. Everyone does. When corrected, it’s extremely poor form to continue going on about it. It makes it appear that one is handwaving away an argument based on the mistake rather than engaging one’s interlocutor. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2016, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/facts-vs-opinions-in-great-debates/754347/36 "2016-05-09T00:57:27Z")
> [@Jonathan\_Chance](#): > > … - run the risk of drawing the ire of the kind and loving moderators. **Ivory Tower Denizen** , right? ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2016, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/facts-vs-opinions-in-great-debates/754347/37 "2016-05-09T00:58:08Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > New York is not New Jersey. But New Jersey, under some conditions, may well be New York. Ask the Giants or the Jets. Facts! ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2016, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/facts-vs-opinions-in-great-debates/754347/38 "2016-05-09T00:58:17Z")
> [@Jonathan\_Chance](#): > > Also, we very much want honest debate. Posters that develop the habit dishonestly debating - red herrings, continuing to affirm a cite after it’s been soundly disproven and so forth - run the risk of drawing the ire of the kind and loving moderators. Have I done that? If so, where? ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2016, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/facts-vs-opinions-in-great-debates/754347/39 "2016-05-09T00:59:43Z")
I’m not saying you have. However, we have certainly had posters who have done so in the past - and doubtless will in the future - and I’d prefer to make clear right now that it’s only tolerated so far. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2016, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/facts-vs-opinions-in-great-debates/754347/40 "2016-05-09T01:02:00Z")
> [@Jonathan\_Chance](#): > > People make mistakes. Everyone does. > > When corrected, it’s extremely poor form to continue going on about it. It makes it appear that one is handwaving away an argument based on the mistake rather than engaging one’s interlocutor. Of course people make mistakes. I know I do. But what about people who constantly make mistakes, over and over and over? After awhile, it’s no longer a mistake. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/facts-vs-opinions-in-great-debates/754347.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/facts-vs-opinions-in-great-debates/754347.md?page=3)