# Factual claims by Ta-Nehisi Coates about the Palestinian territories **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 8, 2024, 10:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/factual-claims-by-ta-nehisi-coates-about-the-palestinian-territories/1008555 "2024-10-08T10:33:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2024, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/factual-claims-by-ta-nehisi-coates-about-the-palestinian-territories/1008555/21 "2024-10-08T17:04:29Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > The concept of a civil marriage doesn’t exist in Israeli law directly, just like any other state that inherited the Ottoman system; however, Israel recognizes civili marriages performed in the courts of other countries, so people who don’t want a religious marriage, or whose marriage doesn’t get approved by any religious authority, can just get a marriage certificate online from a European country or US state at which point the Israeli government fully recognizes the marriage. This is nuts. Presumably atheists or members of religions not recognised by the Israel government cannot marry at all without going abroad? > [@chappachula](#): > > (For a comparable example of silly archaic marriage laws: in England there is (or was till very recently) a law that all marriages have to take place inside a church.This created a business of companies that offered to rent you inflatable “bouncy church” buildings.) This is even more nuts, and also completely untrue. The UK has had civil marriage as an option since 1837, where you get married in a registry office. That’s what me and my husband did, and what my parents did back in the 70s. Nowadays you can get married in a fancy hotel or stately home, but it has to be a building registered for the purpose - a bouncy castle would _not_ qualify. ---
**Author:** ![chappachula](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d2c977/32.png) [@chappachula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chappachula)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2024, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/factual-claims-by-ta-nehisi-coates-about-the-palestinian-territories/1008555/22 "2024-10-08T17:27:16Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > This is even more nuts, and also completely untrue okay thanks for correcting me. I remember jokes from years ago about how Brits had to get married in a church. I sure got whooshed! I feel like a fool. But your reaction to the main subject of my post: > [@DemonTree](#): > > Presumably atheists or members of religions not recognised by the Israel government cannot marry at all without going abroad? is also true…and yes, it’s nuts. Israeli law recognizes established religious figures as the only legal officiants who can marry people. So, yes, lots of folks get around the law by going abroad. But this has always been true, and has nothing to do with the Palestinian conflict. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2024, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/factual-claims-by-ta-nehisi-coates-about-the-palestinian-territories/1008555/23 "2024-10-08T17:40:07Z")
> [@chappachula](#): > > is also true…and yes, it’s nuts. Israeli law recognizes established religious figures as the only legal officiants who can marry people. So, yes, lots of folks get around the law by going abroad. What would happen if the mayor of Tel Aviv attempted to officiate a wedding? It would not be legally recognized? But in, I don’t know, France, where clerics are lucky they didn’t all get murdered during the Revolution and _only_ the state can marry people, that would be respectively recognized in Israel? I have heard that, while it’s not Iran, good luck trying to get married in Israel if you are gay. Or even if you aren’t but some “established” (lol) religious figures don’t like your face for some other reason. ---
**Author:** ![chappachula](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d2c977/32.png) [@chappachula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chappachula)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2024, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/factual-claims-by-ta-nehisi-coates-about-the-palestinian-territories/1008555/24 "2024-10-08T17:45:38Z")
> [@DPRK](#): > > What would happen if the mayor of Tel Aviv attempted to officiate a wedding? It would not be legally recognized? Absolutely not. > [@DPRK](#): > > have heard that, good luck trying to get married in Israel if you are gay Israel recognizes full gay rights, but calls them “civil unions”., essentially the same as marriage, but with a different name. The actual wedding ceremony is done overseas, using those same travel agencies I mentioned above. Being gay in Israel is similar to what American law calls a “protected class”, so all discrimination is illegal. (But we’re off topic again.) ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2024, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/factual-claims-by-ta-nehisi-coates-about-the-palestinian-territories/1008555/25 "2024-10-08T17:47:01Z")
I agree. Far too much of this has nothing to do with the OP. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2024, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/factual-claims-by-ta-nehisi-coates-about-the-palestinian-territories/1008555/26 "2024-10-08T18:21:22Z")
The linked John Oliver segment is quite good, and I think a very fair presentation of the facts. ---
**Author:** ![md-2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9d8465/32.png) [@md-2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md-2000)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2024, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/factual-claims-by-ta-nehisi-coates-about-the-palestinian-territories/1008555/27 "2024-10-08T18:26:24Z")
So “recognize religious marriages”. I’m not trying to make a point here, I’m just curious how far the rules go. Does a recognized marriage apply to any Rabbi (or presumably, Imam, priest, etc.) or for Jews does it require the approval of someone who is recognized by the rabbincal authorities? I recall something about the authority council that decides who qualifies for the right of return being a council of fairly hard-line Rabbis. Or is a Rabbi or Imam or Priest absolutely forbidden from officiating in a mixed marriage as part of the religious qualifications of the cleric? (I seem to recall that the qualifications to be a cleric or officiant in North America seem to be pretty open…) ---
**Author:** ![md-2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9d8465/32.png) [@md-2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md-2000)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2024, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/factual-claims-by-ta-nehisi-coates-about-the-palestinian-territories/1008555/28 "2024-10-08T18:31:53Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > The linked John Oliver segment is quite good, and I think a very fair presentation of the facts. My only quibble would be that there were some level of atrocities and village clearances on both sides during the 1948 war. There’s an interesting documentary _Tantura_ about the scholar who documented the incidents at a Palestinian village north of Haifa and the backlash against what he wrote. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2024, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/factual-claims-by-ta-nehisi-coates-about-the-palestinian-territories/1008555/29 "2024-10-08T18:37:44Z")
> [@chappachula](#): > > But this thread is about alleged discrimination against Palestinians, No-This thread is about the factual claims made by Ta-Nehisi Coates about the Palestinian territories. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2024, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/factual-claims-by-ta-nehisi-coates-about-the-palestinian-territories/1008555/30 "2024-10-08T18:42:04Z")
> [@chappachula](#): > > I sure got whooshed! Sorry. I was wondering if it was actually true in some other country and you just got the place wrong, but it seems kind of unlikely. > [@chappachula](#): > > But this has always been true, and has nothing to do with the Palestinian conflict. Yeah. Israel deserves a lot of blame for how they are treating Palestinians, in the West Bank in particular. Some of what they do is necessary for security reasons, but by no means all. Especially this: > [@madmonk28](#): > > When I was in West Bank, an Israeli settler had recently raped a Palestinian child. The Palestinians turned him over to the Israelis , but he was seen back in the settlement shortly thereafter. It wasn’t clear if he was on parole, or never charged, but the Palestinians were not getting any answers as to what was being done. I’d be tempted to resort to violence too. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2024, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/factual-claims-by-ta-nehisi-coates-about-the-palestinian-territories/1008555/31 "2024-10-08T18:46:07Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > Note, this has nothing to do with ethnicity or religions. Palestinians are people from the Palestinian territories, be they Muslim, Christian, or anything else. > > Israelis are Israelis, whether they are Jewish, Muslim, or Christian. > > I’m sure you can find plenty of videos of people asking one another what their religion is as a shorthand for that, but a Muslim Israeli can do anything a Jewish Israeli can. Does it really matter what the written law is if, in practice on the ground, authorities use questions about religion to enforce it? I mean, if it’s true that legally, Israeli Arabs could go wherever they want, and Palestinians (non-citizens of Israel) cannot, but in practice, Israeli Arabs are often stopped at checkpoints based on religion (or appearance, etc.), then that practice would seem to be as relevant, or more so, as the written law, with regards to what people face on the ground. But it seems, AFAICT, that Coates’ statements in the OP are factually accurate. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2024, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/factual-claims-by-ta-nehisi-coates-about-the-palestinian-territories/1008555/32 "2024-10-08T18:50:09Z")
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**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2024, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/factual-claims-by-ta-nehisi-coates-about-the-palestinian-territories/1008555/33 "2024-10-08T18:50:51Z")
**Moderating:** With many flags in and many off-topic replies, I’m closing this until an FQ moderator can figure this out. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2024, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/factual-claims-by-ta-nehisi-coates-about-the-palestinian-territories/1008555/34 "2024-10-08T23:51:37Z")
[Moderating] And as an FQ moderator, I’m ruling that whatever factual content this thread ever had has been resolved, and leaving it closed. If you want to discuss any of the other issues, do so in a different forum. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/factual-claims-by-ta-nehisi-coates-about-the-palestinian-territories/1008555.md?page=1)