# Factual question about airline bumping **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 11, 2017, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/factual-question-about-airline-bumping/784231 "2017-04-11T13:22:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2017, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/factual-question-about-airline-bumping/784231/21 "2017-04-11T17:13:12Z")
The Maximum is the max they are legally obliged to pay you if they bump you, you did not volunteer. As the (ex?)government official on CNN said, that’s cash. Plus rebook your ticket, plus hotel and meal vouchers. If they ask for volunteers, they can offer whatever they want. But… the offers allegedly stopped at $800 in this incident when looking for volunteers. The only reason to offer as much or more than the legal maximum when looking for volunteers is to not piss off your customers; so why would United bother offering that? $1350/4 is $337. I presume an el-cheapo flight from Chicago to Louisville is less than that? (I wonder if “price” for the law includes luggage fees, seat selection fee, etc.? Taxes? Airport improvement fee? Use overhead bin fee? I see a basic fare for booking one way, a few weeks from now, of about $100. I think too, one of the most important issues is being overlooked. Black Lives Matter was wrong. Police don’t beat black people - they will beat everyone and anyone if they think the can get away with it. A burly policeman with the full authority plainclothes bestows on him manhandling a 69-year-old doctor who was on the phone with his lawyer… ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2017, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/factual-question-about-airline-bumping/784231/22 "2017-04-11T17:19:25Z")
I’m also guessing that nobody at the gate had any authority to exceed the legal maximum so the bidding would not have gone any higher. Why would a company bother to empower its employees. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2017, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/factual-question-about-airline-bumping/784231/23 "2017-04-11T18:30:13Z")
> [@md2000](#): > > I think too, one of the most important issues is being overlooked. Black Lives Matter was wrong. Police don’t beat black people - they will beat everyone and anyone if they think the can get away with it. A burly policeman with the full authority plainclothes bestows on him manhandling a 69-year-old doctor who was on the phone with his lawyer… **Moderator Note** Let’s refrain from professional jabs and political commentary in GQ. No warning issued, but this has nothing to do with the factual question in the OP. Colibri General Questions Moderator ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2017, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/factual-question-about-airline-bumping/784231/24 "2017-04-11T18:30:56Z")
> [@md2000](#): > > I’m also guessing that nobody at the gate had any authority to exceed the legal maximum so the bidding would not have gone any higher. Why would a company bother to empower its employees. “Guesses” also don’t belong in GQ. ---
**Author:** ![Navigator66](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/43a26b/32.png) [@Navigator66](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Navigator66)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2017, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/factual-question-about-airline-bumping/784231/25 "2017-04-11T19:33:34Z")
A few years back I took Delta’s offer of $600 plus vouchers on one of their overbooked flights from Boston to Miami, to give up my seat. I wasn’t on a tight schedule so a flight the next day was no inconvience and gave me an extra day with family. But, me being who I am, when the offer went to $600, I raised my hand, stood up and said in a loud voice. “Sold for $600 but I want a bottle of booze, a hooker, and a hotel room for the night.” The other passengers around me laughed, the gate attendants not so much. I even had one of them blushing at the counter when I said, “Now, about the hooker, I want a 19 year old, 6 foot tall, redheaded, Korean girl”. ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2017, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/factual-question-about-airline-bumping/784231/26 "2017-04-12T03:10:39Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > “Guesses” also don’t belong in GQ. Very well, let me rephrase it. Factually… The bidding stopped at $800, then they went directly to force over persuasion as a tactic. This is evidence strongly pointing to the possibility that they were not empowered to offer higher. As I mentioned, the current future price for the trip is about $100 according to Expedia. So technically, even allowing for a $25 bag check and $25 seat selection fee included, they were not legally obliged to go over, say, about $600. Why, then $800? maybe that was 4 times what quite a few people had paid. Most likely a fixed ceiling for that flight already established as a policy. Rarely are front-line staff empowered to hand out the employer’s money except according to strict policy in any settings I’ve been aware of. Even in retail, simple small refunds usually require approval of management. Maybe as more details emerge we will find out. ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2017, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/factual-question-about-airline-bumping/784231/27 "2017-04-12T03:52:17Z")
Another interesting point some lawyer made on CNN just now… The laws everyone mentions apply to overbooking. In this case, it was NOT overbooking. The airline passengers were seated, the airline wanted to remove some to put on airline employees - not other equally booked passengers. Therefore, all the laws about overbooking do not apply, including legal maximums that the airline would be obliged to pay. The sky’s the limit in the compensation they could be sued for… ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2017, 6:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/factual-question-about-airline-bumping/784231/28 "2017-04-12T06:12:10Z")
> [@Iggy](#): > > Airlines can set their own policy regarding which passenger(s) will be selected for denied boarding. Generally they ask first for volunteers to wait for a later flight in exchange for agreed compensation. > > Absent enough volunteers they will choose. Generally first class, business class, and full coach fare would be among the last to be denied boarding. Really hard to imagine that a flight would be so oversold as to get to the point that someone in one of those fare classes would be involuntarily denied boarding. > > A few other factors may be considered as well. Minors traveling alone, particularly those so young as to be flying under the airline’s paid supervision as an unaccompanied minor almost certainly will not be denied boarding. Those with particular medical disabilities are unlikely to be selected for denied boarding as well. > > Finally, in addition to those with the cheapest fare class tickets one group more likely to be selected for denied boarding is those who checked in last. Sorry to return to the OP (most inappropriate!), but in addition my understanding is that airlines have some form of rating system for all regular passengers, that influence the way they treat you. So for example the airline I regularly use has a record of my preference to be as far forward as possible, on an aisle seat. Back a few years ago when I was flying heaps I would regularly end up extremely far forward, on the aisle. Then I started flying much less and slowly got offered seats further and further back. Now I’m flying l lot again and lo and behold I keep ending up right up near the front. In essence, I suspect the rating would correlate to your average spend. I would strongly suspect that the rating would be used to decide who is bumped. So business and first class passengers are highly unlikely to get bumped, for that reason alone. ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2017, 6:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/factual-question-about-airline-bumping/784231/29 "2017-04-12T06:27:22Z")
> [@K364](#): > > I’m sure that the details will vary among the different airlines, but are the higher classes of ticket immune from bumping? > > For example, there is First Class, Business Class, etc. And also there might be a “Flex” class that gives you a free checked bag and may allow for less penalties on re-booking. And of course, the lowly Economy class. Are these all treated equally when the bumping decisions are made? Here’s a story about someone being bumped from first class after boarding - and being threatened with handcuffs if he refused to vacate his seat. He’d paid full fare, was a frequent flyer, etc. Eventually they relented and put him in economy in a middle seat between a bickering couple… !? So presumably, again, “call the cops” is company policy. > **[Column: United passenger threatened with handcuffs to make room for...](https://www.latimes.com/business/lazarus/la-fi-lazarus-united-low-priority-passenger-20170412-story.html)** > > It’s hard to find examples of worse decision-making and customer treatment than United Airlines having a passenger dragged from an overbooked plane. ---
**Author:** ![Iggy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iggy/32/3364_2.png) [@Iggy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Iggy)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2017, 6:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/factual-question-about-airline-bumping/784231/30 "2017-04-12T06:54:29Z")
> [@md2000](#): > > Here’s a story about someone being bumped from first class after boarding - … > > [Column: United passenger threatened with handcuffs to make room for 'higher-priority' traveler](http://www.latimes.com/business/lazarus/la-fi-lazarus-united-low-priority-passenger-20170412-story.html) As the article noted the airline changed planes due to a mechanical issue. The replacement plane had one fewer first class seats than the originally scheduled equipment. Someone in first was going to get the boot if they all showed up. Shit happens. It’s unfortunate but a change of plane is better than waiting on repairs to be completed to get the plane with the one extra first class seat. If United had just made the decision on which first class passenger to downgrade based upon last to check in it probably would not have gained much attention and never would have gotten as far as telling a customer to leave their seat after boarding. Refund the fare difference, rebook into coach, and apologize. But I do not fault United for calling the police when a passenger refuses cabin crew instructions. At the point where a firm, clear instruction has been given and refused the cabin crew should call authorities rather than letting the issue get caught in a cycle of escalation. And the authorities should deal with the matter appropriately, a matter they failed spectacularly on in the Chicago to Louisville flight situation. ---
**Author:** ![Tired\_and\_Cranky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a87d85/32.png) [@Tired\_and\_Cranky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tired_and_Cranky)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2017, 11:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/factual-question-about-airline-bumping/784231/31 "2017-04-12T11:09:11Z")
> [@md2000](#): > > Another interesting point some lawyer made on CNN just now… > > The laws everyone mentions apply to overbooking. In this case, it was NOT overbooking. The airline passengers were seated, the airline wanted to remove some to put on airline employees - not other equally booked passengers. Therefore, all the laws about overbooking do not apply, including legal maximums that the airline would be obliged to pay. The sky’s the limit in the compensation they could be sued for… The law also refers to denying a passenger “boarding.” In this case, the doctor was allowed to board and then removed. I’m not sure if that’s a meaningful distinction but I might argue it was. ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2017, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/factual-question-about-airline-bumping/784231/32 "2017-04-12T14:11:05Z")
What’s the other law? I know “interfering with flight crew” is a criminal offense, but does that extend to not obeying a (non-general) request to leave the airplane? It would be hard to characterize sitting still quietly in your seat as interference. What offense specifically are you committing by refusing to leave? It’s not trespassing, as you have paid for and been shown to your seat already. Breach of contract (not leaving when the terms say you should) is a civil matter. > [@](#): > > …And the authorities should deal with the matter appropriately, a matter they failed spectacularly on in the Chicago to Louisville flight situation. Yes the point I was making, that has been seriously overlooked. ---
**Author:** ![D18](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c57346/32.png) [@D18](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D18)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2017, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/factual-question-about-airline-bumping/784231/33 "2017-04-12T14:17:44Z")
Back to the OP, once again: high frequent-flyer status with the airline goes a long way toward protecting you from being bumped involuntarily. ---
**Author:** ![Iggy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iggy/32/3364_2.png) [@Iggy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Iggy)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2017, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/factual-question-about-airline-bumping/784231/34 "2017-04-12T14:38:41Z")
> [@md2000](#): > > … It’s not trespassing, as you have paid for and been shown to your seat already. Breach of contract (not leaving when the terms say you should) is a civil matter. > Yes the point I was making, that has been seriously overlooked. Trespass includes refusal to leave once told to do so by the owner or by the owner’s designated representative. The aggrieved customer could bring a civil action for breech of contract, but purchase of the ticket does not given an unconditional right to occupy the seat. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2017, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/factual-question-about-airline-bumping/784231/35 "2017-04-12T14:51:50Z")
> [@Iggy](#): > > But I do not fault United for calling the police when a passenger refuses cabin crew instructions. At the point where a firm, clear instruction has been given and refused the cabin crew should call authorities rather than letting the issue get caught in a cycle of escalation. And the authorities should deal with the matter appropriately, a matter they failed spectacularly on in the Chicago to Louisville flight situation. > [@Tired\_and\_Cranky](#): > > The law also refers to denying a passenger “boarding.” In this case, the doctor was allowed to board and then removed. I’m not sure if that’s a meaningful distinction but I might argue it was. > [@md2000](#): > > What’s the other law? I know “interfering with flight crew” is a criminal offense, but does that extend to not obeying a (non-general) request to leave the airplane? It would be hard to characterize sitting still quietly in your seat as interference. What offense specifically are you committing by refusing to leave? It’s not trespassing, as you have paid for and been shown to your seat already. Breach of contract (not leaving when the terms say you should) is a civil matter. > [@Iggy](#): > > Trespass includes refusal to leave once told to do so by the owner or by the owner’s designated representative. > > The aggrieved customer could bring a civil action for breech of contract, but purchase of the ticket does not given an unconditional right to occupy the seat. **Moderator Instructions** There are active threads in MPSIMS and the Pit discussing United’s actions and whether they were justified or not. Let’s keep this to the question in the OP on airline policy on who gets bumped when a flight is overbooked. If you want to discuss other aspects of the United case, take it to another forum. Colibri General Questions Moderaro ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2017, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/factual-question-about-airline-bumping/784231/36 "2017-04-12T20:45:06Z")
[Article about United and bumping](http://www.gomn.com/news/united-scandal-unfolds-rules-bumping-people-flights/) > [@](#): > > In United’s case, passengers are prioritized based on their fare class, itinerary, whether they’re frequent flyer program members, and the time they checked in without an advanced seat assignment. Also, people with disabilities and unaccompanied minors will be the last to be involuntarily denied boarding. The basis for this quote is unknown. It’s in line with several other articles I read about United’s policy on bumping involuntarily. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/factual-question-about-airline-bumping/784231.md?page=1)