# Factual Question about Breaking Bad: Blue Meth? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [November 5, 2015, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/factual-question-about-breaking-bad-blue-meth/736746 "2015-11-05T18:55:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2015, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/factual-question-about-breaking-bad-blue-meth/736746/1 "2015-11-05T18:55:16Z")
In the TV series _Breaking Bad,_ Walter White finds a chemistry work-around for not having to use the hard-to-come-by pseudoephedrine as a precursor, but instead uses methylamine in his high-volume recipe for methamphetamine. Would this really create a sky blue color in the meth, or was it artistic license? ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2015, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/factual-question-about-breaking-bad-blue-meth/736746/2 "2015-11-05T20:09:24Z")
According to [this article](http://www.ibtimes.com/breaking-bad-chemistry-truth-behind-blue-meth-walter-whites-process-1411068), blue meth was just artistic license. > [@](#): > > The more obvious departure from reality is Walter White’s “hyper-pure” strain of methamphetamine, which comes in a characteristic blue hue. In reality, an extra-pure strain of meth would likely be either clear or yellow-tinged. > > “I don’t think that’s realistic,” Nelson told Salon. “But it’s part of artistic license that we must allow creative artists to have. I think it was just meant to be Walt’s trademark.” > [@](#): > > Blue meth has popped up on the street in the U.S. occasionally. In July 2010, then-Kansas City Police Chief James Corwin wrote on his blog that his officers had recovered blue meth at least four times in three weeks. The blue meth the KCPD found was no more potent than clear meth. Corwin said some of his officers speculated that manufacturers were coloring their meth to try and beat a police field test, which uses a reagent that turns blue in the presence of meth. Though it’s also possible that meth makers were paying homage to “Breaking Bad,” Corwin wrote. ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2015, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/factual-question-about-breaking-bad-blue-meth/736746/3 "2015-11-05T20:46:04Z")
Ahh, bummer. I was sort of hoping there was indeed some quirk of chemistry there. Interesting though about the blue meth showing up on the street. Of course meth cooks would pay homage to the show. ---
**Author:** ![Pantastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3bc359/32.png) [@Pantastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pantastic)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2015, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/factual-question-about-breaking-bad-blue-meth/736746/4 "2015-11-05T21:51:50Z")
I don’t think it’s fair to say that Walter White found a workaround - in the 1960s and 1970s cooking meth using methylamine was pretty standard, pretty much all of the crank that biker gangs sold would have been made that way. It wasn’t until the 1980s when the DEA started cracking down on the precursor chemicals that people started using Sudafed for manufacture. He was really just using an old technique that is pretty well known but went out of favor in the US due to legal difficulties, and that any of the Mexican cartels would be familiar with. And I’ve seen Colibri’s information in everything I’ve read about the blue color too, it’s just artistic license by the show runners. The actual prop they used was rock candy with blue food coloring, so you’d sometimes see them snacking on the ‘meth’ after lunch when filming. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2015, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/factual-question-about-breaking-bad-blue-meth/736746/5 "2015-11-05T22:23:17Z")
> [@Pantastic](#): > > I don’t think it’s fair to say that Walter White found a workaround - in the 1960s and 1970s cooking meth using methylamine was pretty standard, pretty much all of the crank that biker gangs sold would have been made that way. It wasn’t until the 1980s when the DEA started cracking down on the precursor chemicals that people started using Sudafed for manufacture. He was really just using an old technique that is pretty well known but went out of favor in the US due to legal difficulties, and that any of the Mexican cartels would be familiar with. Hank refers to this when he first sees it when he says “P2P––they’re cooking old school biker meth.” From the [_Breaking Bad_ Wiki:](http://breakingbad.wikia.com/wiki/Blue_Sky) > [@](#): > > Walt’s methamphetamine becomes blue when he switches from pseudoephedrine reduction to reductive amination. The blue color is apparently a plot device, introduced by the show’s writers to make Walt’s product visually identifiable. Although blue methamphetamine, sometimes called “smurf dope,” exists in the real world, 100% pure methamphetamine would appear as colorless/white crystals. The blue color might result from impurities formed during the reaction, but despite its light blue coloration, Walt’s product is highly pure. The episode “Box Cutter” opens with flashback to Gale giddily setting up equipment in the laundromat super-lab. He tells Gus that he has the sample he asked him to analyze saying it is “quite good.” He then lets us know it was Walt’s product: “I can not as of yet account for the blue color.” Gale goes on to guarantee Gus a purity of 96 percent for his own product. Walt’s sample was 99 percent pure and “maybe even a touch beyond that.” So it’s a contradiction that Walt’s meth is both blue and highly pure. It can’t be both. It’s also not exactly realistic that someone as cautious as Gus Fring would do business with someone like Walt, who he already knows is a loose cannon, for the sake of such a small increase in purity. And even Jesse knows this: > [@](#): > > Jesse Pinkman: Look, I like making cherry product, but let’s keep it real, alright? We make poison for people who don’t care. We probably have the most unpicky customers in the world. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2015, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/factual-question-about-breaking-bad-blue-meth/736746/6 "2015-11-05T23:04:11Z")
I was reading that exact Breaking Bad Wiki page–a website I had never seen before–just this afternoon before even seeing this thread–SerenDipity strikes again! ---
**Author:** ![Don\_t\_Panic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/don_t_panic/32/398_2.png) [@Don\_t\_Panic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_t_Panic)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2015, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/factual-question-about-breaking-bad-blue-meth/736746/7 "2015-11-06T00:11:53Z")
Walt makes magic meth. That’s because he’s a meth wizard. Not only should Walt’s meth not be blue. In the real world, the P2P method doesn’t create very pure meth. A P2P cook gives you a mix of two forms of the meth molecule (d-meth and l-meth), which are mirror images of each other, and only one of which is psychoactive. Walt has apparently found a way to isolate the kind he wants, but there’s no actual way to do this. To make very pure meth in the real world, you want the pseudoephedrine method. Another possibly unrealistic thing is the length that Walt goes to in order to get hold of methylamine. If he’s such a genius-level chemist, he should have been able to synthesize his own, as it’s not that hard to make. I have seen it argued that it wouldn’t be practical to do so on the scale that Walt needs, but it seems odd that doesn’t at least consider it. (Note: IMNA meth cook, I just looked into this when I was obsessing over BB a while ago.) ---
**Author:** ![yabob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yabob/32/2821_2.png) [@yabob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yabob)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2015, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/factual-question-about-breaking-bad-blue-meth/736746/8 "2015-11-06T00:26:15Z")
> [@Pantastic](#): > > I don’t think it’s fair to say that Walter White found a workaround - in the 1960s and 1970s cooking meth using methylamine was pretty standard, pretty much all of the crank that biker gangs sold would have been made that way. It wasn’t until the 1980s when the DEA started cracking down on the precursor chemicals that people started using Sudafed for manufacture. He was really just using an old technique that is pretty well known but went out of favor in the US due to legal difficulties, and that any of the Mexican cartels would be familiar with. > > And I’ve seen Colibri’s information in everything I’ve read about the blue color too, it’s just artistic license by the show runners. The actual prop they used was rock candy with blue food coloring, so you’d sometimes see them snacking on the ‘meth’ after lunch when filming. The precursor that the FDA cracked down on was P2P - phenyl 2 propanone, AKA phenylacetone, another chemical used in the “old school biker meth”, as Hank referred to it in the show. Walt supposedly synthesized his own P2P. Why he stole the methylamine rather than just synthesizing that as well may be more for dramatic, rather than realistic reasons. As stated in [this writeup](http://www.popularmechanics.com/culture/tv/a9386/breaking-bad-fact-vs-fiction-walter-whites-secret-formula-15826137/): > [@](#): > > In reality, as on the show, the DEA is well aware of this process and keeps a close watch on P2P. To avoid detection, White synthesizes his P2P from a particular foul-smelling organic compound that Parkinson says that any chemist worth his sodium could create. (Jessie Pinkman, Walt’s ex-junkie partner, is mocked by a cartel chemist for his inability to make the acid.) From there, Walt switches the teeth on the molecular key by “reacting it with methylamine,” Parkinson says, which is where the “meth” part of methamphetamine gets its name. > > In Breaking Bad, Walt is forced to steal great quantities of methylamine to keep his laboratory churning out drugs. However, Parkinson says, that’s a bit of unnecessary drama. “Realistically, Walt would make his own from [a couple of easy-to-access chemicals],” he says. “It’s not very difficult to do. That kind of puzzled me, but I’m guessing that stealing methylamine is just way cooler.” ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2015, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/factual-question-about-breaking-bad-blue-meth/736746/9 "2015-11-06T01:11:26Z")
Maybe Walt was just lazy. Why make your methylamine from scratch, when you can just boost a barrel? Though, roll it next time Walt. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2015, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/factual-question-about-breaking-bad-blue-meth/736746/10 "2015-11-06T01:21:31Z")
> [@](#): > > Quoth **Martian Bigfoot** : > > Not only should Walt’s meth not be blue. In the real world, the P2P method doesn’t create very pure meth. A P2P cook gives you a mix of two forms of the meth molecule (d-meth and l-meth), which are mirror images of each other, and only one of which is psychoactive. Walt has apparently found a way to isolate the kind he wants, but there’s no actual way to do this. To make very pure meth in the real world, you want the pseudoephedrine method. Well, in principle, you could separate them, so long as you had some other chiral chemical to do it with. And there are plenty of chiral chemicals around, due to living things producing and using them. So it’s not entirely out of the realm of possibility that a genius chemist could figure out some trick for it. ---
**Author:** ![magnusblitz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@magnusblitz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magnusblitz)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2015, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/factual-question-about-breaking-bad-blue-meth/736746/11 "2015-11-06T01:28:25Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > It’s also not exactly realistic that someone as cautious as Gus Fring would do business with someone like Walt, who he already knows is a loose cannon, for the sake of such a small increase in purity. And even Jesse knows this: This is veering into Cafe Society topics rather than General Questions, but I’d say that while Fring is very cautious much of the time, he still has his own weaknesses that overcome this. Constantly going to the retirement home to taunt the remaining cartel member, for example. So I don’t think it’s out of the question that when confronted by Walt, it’s not just about the purity, it’s also about his ego getting out of control and wanting to control Walt because he wants to be the top dog. ---
**Author:** ![dasmoocher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@dasmoocher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dasmoocher)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2015, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/factual-question-about-breaking-bad-blue-meth/736746/12 "2015-11-06T01:31:59Z")
> [@cmyk](#): > > Interesting though about the blue meth showing up on the street. Of course meth cooks would pay homage to the show. I have lived in Albuquerque and before I moved there I talked to a friend of a friend who was on the ABQ police force. He did say they were seeing blue meth in the city after the show came out. I think he said it was food coloring that the cooks were using. ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2015, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/factual-question-about-breaking-bad-blue-meth/736746/13 "2015-11-06T01:39:08Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Well, in principle, you could separate them, so long as you had some other chiral chemical to do it with. And there are plenty of chiral chemicals around, due to living things producing and using them. So it’s not entirely out of the realm of possibility that a genius chemist could figure out some trick for it. Even in episode 6 of season 1 (_Crazy Handful of Nothin’_), when he whipped up a batch of mercury fulminate to look like meth but with more _bang_ than fulminated mercury would actually _boom_, after Tuco asks what that was, he says something like, “Mercury fulminate… with a few tweaks of chemistry.” So, it shows the writers seemed aware of the true properties of the substance (they did have consultants), but now I wonder what Walt could’ve done to the mercury fulminate to make it much more explosive. Not only that, but establishing Walt had inspired/insightful ways of tweaking stuff for his own proprietary methods. \*Sorry, if this is heading more toward a Cafe Society direction, but I was more curious to the actual, factual (or not) chemistry in the series. Of course, move the thread if need be. ---
**Author:** ![Don\_t\_Panic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/don_t_panic/32/398_2.png) [@Don\_t\_Panic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_t_Panic)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2015, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/factual-question-about-breaking-bad-blue-meth/736746/14 "2015-11-06T03:44:19Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Well, in principle, you could separate them, so long as you had some other chiral chemical to do it with. And there are plenty of chiral chemicals around, due to living things producing and using them. So it’s not entirely out of the realm of possibility that a genius chemist could figure out some trick for it. Yeah, what the hey, I’ll buy that. 😉 BTW, for anyone out there wondering about chirality in chemistry, [here’s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AnmWTruibMY) Walt explaining it. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2015, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/factual-question-about-breaking-bad-blue-meth/736746/15 "2015-11-06T04:03:41Z")
> [@cmyk](#): > > Even in episode 6 of season 1 (_Crazy Handful of Nothin’_), when he whipped up a batch of mercury fulminate to look like meth but with more _bang_ than fulminated mercury would actually _boom_, after Tuco asks what that was, he says something like, “Mercury fulminate… with a few tweaks of chemistry.” The explosiveness of mercury fulminate was [busted by _Mythbusters_](http://www.today.com/popculture/mythbusters-proves-breaking-bads-walt-needs-some-more-schooling-6C10904583), who found that the amount of the chemical used by Walt, and the force applied in throwing it, would not explode. But using enough fulminate and force to blow out windows would also kill everyone in the room. They also showed that hydrofluoric acid was much wimpier than shown. While it is known for dissolving just about anything but plastic, it’s actually a comparatively weak acid. I also don’t think it’s commonly used in high school chem labs so that you would have gallons and gallons of it sitting around. (I think my high school lab had one bottle.) Likewise I don’t think there would be any reason for a meth lab to have 30+ gallons of the stuff just sitting around. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2015, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/factual-question-about-breaking-bad-blue-meth/736746/16 "2015-11-06T04:30:11Z")
> [@cmyk](#): > > \*Sorry, if this is heading more toward a Cafe Society direction, but I was more curious to the actual, factual (or not) chemistry in the series. Of course, move the thread if need be. [Moderating] I think it’s fine here as long as the main focus is on chemistry. (I know I drifted a bit from that in one of my own posts.) If it gets too much into the plots, I’ll move it. Colibri General Questions Moderator ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2015, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/factual-question-about-breaking-bad-blue-meth/736746/17 "2015-11-06T04:52:21Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > So it’s a contradiction that Walt’s meth is both blue and highly pure. It can’t be both. Food dyes are used in very small quantities. Walt’s meth could easily be 99+% pure and a deep blue; 1% “contamination” would be 10,000 ppm, whereas you only need a few hundred ppm of the dye. Walt could easily add a dye as his trademark without significantly affecting the overall purity. ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2015, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/factual-question-about-breaking-bad-blue-meth/736746/18 "2015-11-06T05:18:58Z")
> [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > Food dyes are used in very small quantities. Walt’s meth could easily be 99+% pure and a deep blue; 1% “contamination” would be 10,000 ppm, whereas you only need a few hundred ppm of the dye. > > Walt could easily add a dye as his trademark without significantly affecting the overall purity. [PLOT TALK] I had the same thought. But Walt was never about gimmicks and prided his brand on being the best, purest product out there. And, IIRC, in the last episode of season one, Tuco questions the color. Walt tells him it’s a result of a new chemical process he’s using and assures him is just as good as his other batch, if not better. It just doesn’t seem Heisenburg-like to add some food dye. Though, you’re right it wouldn’t make a dent in the purity. Food coloring goes a looooong way. ---
**Author:** ![Jragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Jragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jragon)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2015, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/factual-question-about-breaking-bad-blue-meth/736746/19 "2015-11-06T05:22:39Z")
> [@yabob](#): > > The precursor that the FDA cracked down on was P2P - phenyl 2 propanone, AKA phenylacetone, another chemical used in the “old school biker meth”, as Hank referred to it in the show. Walt supposedly synthesized his own P2P. Why he stole the methylamine rather than just synthesizing that as well may be more for dramatic, rather than realistic reasons. As stated in [this writeup](http://www.popularmechanics.com/culture/tv/a9386/breaking-bad-fact-vs-fiction-walter-whites-secret-formula-15826137/): That article also says that the chemist they interviewed likes to think, just for fun, that the blue color is due to Walt’s super sekret way of weeding out the bad chiral twin of meth, which is what allows his P2P method of making it to be so pure. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2015, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/factual-question-about-breaking-bad-blue-meth/736746/20 "2015-11-06T05:22:56Z")
> [@cmyk](#): > > It just doesn’t seem Heisenburg-like to add some food dye. Though, you’re right it wouldn’t make a dent in the purity. Food coloring goes a looooong way. I agree that it doesn’t fit with Heisenberg’s personality. No matter how small the quantity, he would still see it as deliberately contaminating his product. Still–it could be done. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/factual-question-about-breaking-bad-blue-meth/736746.md?page=2)