# Fade-out or End: how do you like your songs? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 7, 2008, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fade-out-or-end-how-do-you-like-your-songs/432652 "2008-01-07T22:45:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2008, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fade-out-or-end-how-do-you-like-your-songs/432652/1 "2008-01-07T22:45:48Z")
In the thread [Otherwise good songs that are ruined by the bridge (or other elements)](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=449548) **yelimS** wrote: [QUOTE=yelimS] Also, I hate it when good songs, especially by studio purists such as Steely Dan, who should definitely know better, end in a fade-out. End your songs properly, like Squarepusher’s Problem Child, or something! [/QUOTE] I didn’t want to hijack the other thread for this, so new thread. Saying that songs must end “properly” (not in a fade-out) is like saying that all stories must have an ending in which the hero dies. Songs - good songs, even great songs - end any way the artist thinks is appropriate. There are zillions of good fade-out songs. “A Day in the Life” is probably the most famous, and wouldn’t work any other way. Would “Layla” be great with a crashing chord to close it out? Speaking of Steely Dan, doesn’t perhaps their best song “The Royal Scam” fade-out gently, as it must? But battle it out here. Does anyone agree with **yelimS**? If so, why and what about those great songs with fade-outs? ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2008, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fade-out-or-end-how-do-you-like-your-songs/432652/2 "2008-01-07T22:56:28Z")
Na na na Na na na na Hey Jude A song ends how it ends. I don’t have a preference. “I want You (She’s so Heavy)” also by the Beatles sounds like someone cut the tape at a random spot near the end. Both songs work for me. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2008, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fade-out-or-end-how-do-you-like-your-songs/432652/3 "2008-01-07T23:05:55Z")
[QUOTE=Leaffan] Na na na Na na na na Hey Jude A song ends how it ends. I don’t have a preference. [/QUOTE] I think the OP was looking for examples where fade added to the song 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Cluricaun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/bb73d2/32.png) [@Cluricaun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cluricaun)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2008, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fade-out-or-end-how-do-you-like-your-songs/432652/4 "2008-01-07T23:05:56Z")
I don’t like when songs I like fade out, only because I want to hear the rest of the jam. I also think that it’s a cleaner musical idea when it’s constructed to have a finish, otherwise it’s just lazy. I’ll take a longer Hey Jude if it eventually gets to an ending, even if that ending it just “Shave and a Haircut, Two Bits”. ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Sensitive](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/58956e/32.png) [@Darth\_Sensitive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Sensitive)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2008, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fade-out-or-end-how-do-you-like-your-songs/432652/5 "2008-01-07T23:12:32Z")
No - songs shouldn’t end at all. this is the song that never ends yes it goes on and on my friends some people started singing it not knowing what it was and they’ll continue singing it forever just because this is the song that never ends yes it goes on and on my friends some people started singing it not knowing what it was and they’ll continue singing it forever just because this is the song that never ends yes it goes on and on my friends some people started singing it not knowing what it was and they’ll continue singing it forever just because this is the song that never ends yes it goes on and on my friends some people started singing it not knowing what it was and they’ll continue singing it forever just because … ---
**Author:** ![Mister\_Rik](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mister_rik/32/491_2.png) [@Mister\_Rik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mister_Rik)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2008, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fade-out-or-end-how-do-you-like-your-songs/432652/6 "2008-01-07T23:15:51Z")
I’ve heard a few fadeouts that really ticked me off because, upon cranking up the volume in order to hear it all the way to the end, I’ve heard the guitar player insert an absolutely _monster_ lick that would have gone completely unheard without cranking the volume. (Please don’t ask for a cite. I can’t remember specifics - just that I’ve encountered it more than once.) ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2008, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fade-out-or-end-how-do-you-like-your-songs/432652/7 "2008-01-07T23:16:32Z")
Fade outs are lame. It won’t ruin a song for me, but I generally consider them the lazy way out of ending a song. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2008, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fade-out-or-end-how-do-you-like-your-songs/432652/8 "2008-01-07T23:18:48Z")
I never thought about this before… but I really like when a song ends distinctively much better than a fade out. Usually be the 5th repeat of the same line, I’m still singing, but in the back of my mind I’m thinking, ''Well, this isn’t very original, is it?" A good example of an original ending is Queen’s _The Prophet’s Song_. And still I fear and still I dare not _laugh at the madmaaaaaaan_! Exquisite. (there are many more. that’s just one.) ---
**Author:** ![Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e47c2d/32.png) [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffy_the_Elephant_Shrew)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2008, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fade-out-or-end-how-do-you-like-your-songs/432652/9 "2008-01-07T23:40:43Z")
[QUOTE=Exapno Mapcase] There are zillions of good fade-out songs. “A Day in the Life” is probably the most famous, and wouldn’t work any other way. [/QUOTE] I don’t agree with this example–“A Day in the Life” is the opposite of a fadeout song. A fadeout song fades out the volume while the music is still active and never reaches a firm conclusion. “A Day in the Life” comes to a solid end with that celebrated crashing E chord. And while the chord itself gradually dies away, like any musical sound does, far from fading it out, the engineers jacked **up** the gain to capture every last reverberation. ---
**Author:** ![gotpasswords](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c57346/32.png) [@gotpasswords](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gotpasswords)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2008, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fade-out-or-end-how-do-you-like-your-songs/432652/10 "2008-01-08T00:17:28Z")
And \*Layla \* doesn’t fade out either. It’s got a properly composed ending that your local radio station is probably snipping off. And no, it’s not some “crashing chord” either. Fade-outs are just part of life with radio stations, whether it’s cross-mixing two songs, or just lopping off the ending so they have more time to sell commercial spots. Songs \*recorded \* with fade-outs, OTOH, are horrid. The band is just saying “We have no idea how to wrap up our musical themes and end the composition.” ---
**Author:** ![gotpasswords](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c57346/32.png) [@gotpasswords](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gotpasswords)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2008, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fade-out-or-end-how-do-you-like-your-songs/432652/11 "2008-01-08T00:23:19Z")
And \*Layla \* doesn’t fade out either. It’s got a properly composed ending that your local radio station is probably snipping off. And no, it’s not some “crashing chord” either. Fade-outs are just part of life with radio stations, whether it’s cross-mixing two songs, or just lopping off the ending so they have more time to sell commercial spots. Songs \*recorded \* with fade-outs, OTOH, are horrid. The band is just saying “We have no idea how to wrap up our musical themes and end the composition.” ---
**Author:** ![toadspittle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c0e974/32.png) [@toadspittle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/toadspittle)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2008, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fade-out-or-end-how-do-you-like-your-songs/432652/12 "2008-01-08T00:44:36Z")
“Any musician who fades out a song instead of ending it is just lazy.” This is one of the bits of wisdom that my schoolteachers imposed upon me. Know that I’m old enough to think back on it and realize that their every word was not gospel, it pisses me off to no end. Here’s a lazy ending that used a fade-out: [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/qvjsb7-JbpI/hqdefault.jpg "casablanca ending, dga...") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qvjsb7-JbpI) Miserable piece of crap. They should have used a cut, instead. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2008, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fade-out-or-end-how-do-you-like-your-songs/432652/13 "2008-01-08T00:48:04Z")
[QUOTE=Phase42] I’ve heard a few fadeouts that really ticked me off because, upon cranking up the volume in order to hear it all the way to the end, I’ve heard the guitar player insert an absolutely _monster_ lick that would have gone completely unheard without cranking the volume. (Please don’t ask for a cite. I can’t remember specifics - just that I’ve encountered it more than once.) [/QUOTE] _Sultans of Swing_, by Dire Straits ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2008, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fade-out-or-end-how-do-you-like-your-songs/432652/14 "2008-01-08T01:16:25Z")
Some people seem to know how to end songs, and some don’t. McCartney seemed to have problems often - neither version of **Get Back** has a real ending. Mike Oldfield on the other hand sometimes has 3 endings in one song - Amarok even has a joke about it at the end, and Taurus 2 has several excellent endings. Classical composers don’t seem to have this problem. Beethoven has excellent endings. So, I’m okay with fadeouts unless they are copouts. In one bootleg Dylan, playing what will later become Nashville Skyline Blues, starts to cough. He plays a few more chords, and then says “that was the end. It fades out.” The producer, who sounds like Tom Wilson says, “thanks a lot. I’ll make a note here, fade at cough.” ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2008, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fade-out-or-end-how-do-you-like-your-songs/432652/15 "2008-01-08T02:19:03Z")
[QUOTE=toadspittle] “Any musician who fades out a song instead of ending it is just lazy.” This is one of the bits of wisdom that my schoolteachers imposed upon me. Know that I’m old enough to think back on it and realize that their every word was not gospel, it pisses me off to no end. Here’s a lazy ending that used a fade-out: [![](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/qvjsb7-JbpI/hqdefault.jpg "casablanca ending, dga...") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qvjsb7-JbpI) Miserable piece of crap. They should have used a cut, instead. [/QUOTE] Umm…what? The song cuts. The video fades, sure, but that’s not the question. Am I being whooshed? ---
**Author:** ![ZebraShaSha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/eada6e/32.png) [@ZebraShaSha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZebraShaSha)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2008, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fade-out-or-end-how-do-you-like-your-songs/432652/16 "2008-01-08T03:11:41Z")
Another problem is songs like Sunset Rubdown’s “For the Pier (And Dead Shimmering)”. The song ends with drumming, heavy drumming, that continues through the beginning of the next song. No real way to deal with that on the radio, fading out cheapens it and stopping when it should stop leaves you with no where to go. A lot of the times I’ll crossfade into a heavily rhythmic song, but even then it’s not a perfect solution. Other people bad but awesome at endings would be Fiery Furnaces. A lot of their songs end with the first second or two of the next one, so it fades better on the album. On the radio, you’ll have a perfect song with a perfect arch that windis down, and then you’ll have 1 second of vocals or guitar or synth come out of nowhere, and then the next song is supposed to begin. Awkward. ---
**Author:** ![Terminus\_Est](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terminus_est/32/3087_2.png) [@Terminus\_Est](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terminus_Est)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2008, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fade-out-or-end-how-do-you-like-your-songs/432652/17 "2008-01-08T04:06:13Z")
[QUOTE=Voyager] Classical composers don’t seem to have this problem. Beethoven has excellent endings. [/QUOTE] The classical equivalent of the fade-out is repeating the tonic chord over and over and over and over. Just so the listener knows that it’s the end of the piece. The end. The end. The end, the end, the end. THE end. End, end, end. END! ---
**Author:** ![Satellite\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Satellite\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Satellite_Guy)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2008, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fade-out-or-end-how-do-you-like-your-songs/432652/18 "2008-01-08T05:03:14Z")
myself, being a bit of a musician (I play guitar and sing when we pull out the guitars at a party), I also feel that a fade out = a cop out… how the hell am I supposed to end the song when I’m playing it?? As a result, pretty much all songs I learn have a real ending. S^G ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2008, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fade-out-or-end-how-do-you-like-your-songs/432652/19 "2008-01-08T05:20:54Z")
I like songs with fade outs. Like **Exapno Mapcase** said, some songs work with them, some work better with a definte end. I can’t imagine a song like “Hotel California” or “More Than A Feeling” coming to an end. Of course, both those songs end with good instrumental solos or jams, not merely repeating the chorus a couple of extra times. A good song should sound like the band doesn’t ever want to quit jamming and should leave you hungry for more. In my opinion, a song with a definite end sounds like the band is saying, “this is all we’re going to give you and that’s all there is.” I do realize, however, a fade out is difficult to pull off in a live performance, so I don’t mind when a band decides to give an ending to a song played live. ---
**Author:** ![PetW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/d2c977/32.png) [@PetW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PetW)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2008, 6:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fade-out-or-end-how-do-you-like-your-songs/432652/20 "2008-01-08T06:51:22Z")
[QUOTE=Phase42] I’ve heard a few fadeouts that really ticked me off because, upon cranking up the volume in order to hear it all the way to the end, I’ve heard the guitar player insert an absolutely _monster_ lick that would have gone completely unheard without cranking the volume. (Please don’t ask for a cite. I can’t remember specifics - just that I’ve encountered it more than once.) [/QUOTE] I know exactly what you mean. I really don’t mind fadeouts for the most part but it drives me crazy when the volume is really low and the guitarist is just shredding the shit out of the guitar, sometimes playing more impressively than he did for the rest of the song, and you can barely even hear it. Damn it, I want that cranked up at the middle or climax of the song! [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fade-out-or-end-how-do-you-like-your-songs/432652.md?page=2)