# "Fag" isn't insulting to gay people? (includes anime rant) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 19, 2005, 9:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fag-isnt-insulting-to-gay-people-includes-anime-rant/285516 "2005-01-19T09:15:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2005, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fag-isnt-insulting-to-gay-people-includes-anime-rant/285516/41 "2005-01-20T04:39:38Z")
> [@cckerberos](#): > > They don’t use anime-related shitajiki? Not that I ever noticed. They seemed to favor the ones with cute animal photos. They thought it was pretty funny when I told them that I knew girls in college who had Sailor Moon keychains. > [@](#): > > \*But I agree with your general principle. In junior high schools manga are far more popular than anime. \*Yeah, I had to get onto them once or twice for looking at manga in class. Sexy manga at that. I didn’t see the pictures, but I _know_ it was. > [@Foible](#): > > For example, “Colorful” is a bunch of vignettes about horny men trying to get a glimpse of panties. Each espisode is under ten minutes but there are a lot of them, all with the same plot. Who (besides me) watches these? Are they on obscure Japanese cable stations or prime time? I never saw anything like this on Japanese network television. Prime time mostly consists of game shows, talk shows, and dramas. All the cartoons I ever saw on TV were obviously family fare. Erotic comic books, as mentioned above, are quite common in Japan and can be bought at any convenience store. However, I don’t think I’d even know that “dirty Japanese cartoons” existed if it weren’t for the fact that so many Americans seem to watch them. ---
**Author:** ![Sublight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@Sublight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sublight)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2005, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fag-isnt-insulting-to-gay-people-includes-anime-rant/285516/42 "2005-01-20T04:47:42Z")
> [@Mearl Dox](#): > > I have no idea what “random chance” would be in this situation, though. Don’t these things have to be carefully designed? How could random chance become a part of it? Well, if they’re anything like the designers where I work, they’re perfectly capable of spending days, getting the design and style of the logo perfectly right, and then dropping in copy that may as well have been pulled randomly from a bag of Scrabble tiles. As long as each logo says the same thing, what they actually say rarely gets a second thought. ---
**Author:** ![Mearl\_Dox](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/65b543/32.png) [@Mearl\_Dox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mearl_Dox)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2005, 5:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fag-isnt-insulting-to-gay-people-includes-anime-rant/285516/43 "2005-01-20T05:43:47Z")
**Sublight,** thanks! I think I see what you mean now. It’s not a mistake, more that they aren’t really worried about how it’d be written or punctuated in the west. I can sympathize with that philosophy a lot! After a day of manic posting like this, I’m probably going to return to lurking, but I wouldn’t mind seeing some of the other people who know either about anime or about \*real \* Japanese culture starting some “ask the” threads. There’s plenty of posters on this board who know both about these topics than me. (I’m an obsessed pathetic fan, but a casual one.) I think this thread is pretty much over, at any rate… 😃 ---
**Author:** ![cckerberos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@cckerberos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cckerberos)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2005, 6:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fag-isnt-insulting-to-gay-people-includes-anime-rant/285516/44 "2005-01-20T06:26:21Z")
> [@Lamia](#): > > Not that I ever noticed. They seemed to favor the ones with cute animal photos. Interesting. I taught in junior high schools and One Piece, Inu Yasha, etc. shitajiki were fairly common. > [@](#): > > Yeah, I had to get onto them once or twice for looking at manga in class. Sexy manga at that. I didn’t see the pictures, but I _know_ it was. Heh. One of my more surreal experiences teaching was when a bunch of 14 year old girls came up to me after school and showed me the ero manga they had in their bookbags. Possession of any manga was prohibited of course, but if you went into any classroom during lunch you’d see kids reading manga. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2005, 7:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fag-isnt-insulting-to-gay-people-includes-anime-rant/285516/45 "2005-01-20T07:45:15Z")
> [@Lamia](#): > > To the limited extent that the Japanese are aware of American anime fans, they generally think they’re pathetic losers. Judging from only my students, by the age of 13 or 14 even Japanese kids won’t admit to watching anime shows anymore. Girls of that age have told me they “used to” like watching **Sailor Moon**. One boy very emphatically told me he _never_ watches _any_ kind of anime because “I am not children!” Eh… sounds like you’re holding the tail and I’m holding the trunk, which isn’t an unusual conversation for foreigners living in Japan to have. Rest assured that we are both holding parts of an elephant. High-school kids in my town are freaks for Gundam. In my experience, Japanese people don’t think you’re really bizarre if you like anime. Everyone was a child once and not everybody gives up childish things. I’ve done some good bonding with Japanese adults over anime discussions. They only get freaked out by people who are unnaturally obsessed with anime, know more than the average Japanese child, and will not shut up about it. This really isn’t so different from people react to anime freaks in their home countries. Lastly, Americans can use “otaku” for anything they like, but they can be assured that Japanese will be sniggering up their sleeves whenever they hear someone use it as a nerd badge of honor. It’s like saying “I’m proud to have no social skills, poor hygeine, and live with my parents.” ---
**Author:** ![Taber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ac91a4/32.png) [@Taber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Taber)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2005, 9:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fag-isnt-insulting-to-gay-people-includes-anime-rant/285516/46 "2005-01-20T09:23:56Z")
> [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > Hardcore anime fans scare me. > > In an Intro to Marketing class I took a few years ago the kid sitting next to me told me: > > A) His parents give him an $800 monthly allowance (for everything) that he consistently blows on anime DVDs and trinkets. And he still needs more money! > > B) He had never heard of U2 (this was right after “All That You Can’t Leave Behind” dropped), but he didn’t think they were any good because “All J-Pop is better.” > > C) He’d seen The Simpsons several times, but he refuses to watch it now because it wasn’t as good as [obscure anime he had downloaded and fansubbed himself]. > > I hated that class by the end of the quarter and it had nothing to do with the workload. This moron somehow became part of my groupwork as well. It was torture. I think you msy have missed one of the main points of the OP, that it is silly to claim superiority over others based of what pop culture you watch ---
**Author:** ![Taber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ac91a4/32.png) [@Taber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Taber)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2005, 9:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fag-isnt-insulting-to-gay-people-includes-anime-rant/285516/47 "2005-01-20T09:25:11Z")
> [@Taber](#): > > I think you may have missed one of the main points of the OP, that it is silly to claim superiority over others based on what pop culture you watch ouch, it’s late… msy = may, of = on ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2005, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fag-isnt-insulting-to-gay-people-includes-anime-rant/285516/48 "2005-01-20T14:03:56Z")
> [@NattoGuy](#): > > In my experience, Japanese people don’t think you’re really bizarre if you like anime. Everyone was a child once and not everybody gives up childish things. I’ve done some good bonding with Japanese adults over anime discussions. Oh, I didn’t mean there was any stigma against people who like to talk about their favorite show from when they were a kid or who even tune in to favorite shows as adults. With the people I’ve met that wouldn’t raise an eyebrow either. But there’s liking anime, and there’s…_liking_ anime, ya know? > [@](#): > > \*They only get freaked out by people who are unnaturally obsessed with anime, know more than the average Japanese child, and will not shut up about it. This really isn’t so different from people react to anime freaks in their home countries. \*That’s the kind of thing I was talking about – your usual crazy American anime fan behavior. I think anyone fretting online about how to space a show’s title would qualify. Oddly, a lot of these people seem to be suffering from the mistaken belief that their behavior would be considered normal in Japan. ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2005, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fag-isnt-insulting-to-gay-people-includes-anime-rant/285516/49 "2005-01-20T14:51:25Z")
> [@Taber](#): > > I think you msy have missed one of the main points of the OP, that it is silly to claim superiority over others based of what pop culture you watch No I got it. I know my taste is not more superior than his. I was complaining more about how I’d have to listen to two hours worth of “This is the best show ever (because it’s from Japan!) and your favorite show sucks (because it’s from America!)” every other day. I didn’t care that he disliked American pop culture, it just amazed me that he was so ignorant and hostile towards it (and people who like it). ---
**Author:** ![Epimetheus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c4cdca/32.png) [@Epimetheus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Epimetheus)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2005, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fag-isnt-insulting-to-gay-people-includes-anime-rant/285516/50 "2005-01-20T18:00:17Z")
> [@Neurotik](#): > > Isn’t there more mature anime than things like Sailor Moon? I thought Princess Mononoke was fairly adult. Elitists tend to ignore facts like that, and continue to mindlessly classify large groups of real art as childish, or not real. The reason of this is they are taught what “real” art is at school, and since they are thusly brainwashed, they dismiss all other forms of entertainment as childish and silly. The “true” artists couldn’t act all pretensious if they didn’t put down other genres like anime, manga and science fiction and fantasy, and consider them 'fake." I mean, would you want people to compare your deity Hemmingway to Asimov? Heaven Forbid! ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2005, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fag-isnt-insulting-to-gay-people-includes-anime-rant/285516/51 "2005-01-20T18:56:20Z")
> [@Epimetheus](#): > > Elitists tend to ignore facts like that, and continue to mindlessly classify large groups of real art as childish, or not real. The reason of this is they are taught what “real” art is at school, and since they are thusly brainwashed, they dismiss all other forms of entertainment as childish and silly. I don’t know if you’ve been skimming this thread or what, but **Neurotik** ’s comments were in response to my description of how Japanese junior high school kids that I’ve taught talked about anime. These were just regular kids, not tiny beret-wearing elitist art snobs. Of course, junior high school kids are elitist in their own way, and probably more dismissive of “childish” entertainment than anyone else. They’re close enough to being children themselves that they’re very sensitive about anything that might make them seem more like little kids than teens/young adults. Older teens aren’t as insecure about this because they know no one’s going to mistake them for a little kid. I remember when I was in high school lots of girls had Barbie or My Little Pony plastic lunchboxes – it was considered cute. But girls just a few years younger wouldn’t be caught dead with such things for fear of being branded “babies”. Getting back to the OP, it occurs to me that his acquaintance’s use of the term “JapanFag” doesn’t even express her intent very well. I don’t think there’s any denying that the word “fag” is an anti-gay slur (although it may be used humorously/ironically without that intent). Her description makes it clear that she is indeed using the word to evoke the idea of gay sex and not as some general term of abuse. So I think it is stupid and insulting to gay men no matter how many of her best friends are gay. But doesn’t the term “fag” suggests not just any ol’ gay man, but a weak, pathetic, effeminate one? The one who, stereotypically at least, would be on the _receiving_ end of anal sex? Without this girl’s description of what she intended it to mean, I’d assume that “JapanFag” was an insult directed towards people who were perversely fixated on Japanese culture and metaphorically wanted Japan to fuck _them_ up the ass. I can easily imagine some hip, bronzed jock or cheerleader sneering “Oh, here come the JapanFags!” when the pale, geeky anime fans approached. Anyway, setting aside all question of its offensiveness, the term sounds like a better description of her own attitude than that of people who just think **Dragonball Z** is cool. ---
**Author:** ![Epimetheus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c4cdca/32.png) [@Epimetheus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Epimetheus)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2005, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fag-isnt-insulting-to-gay-people-includes-anime-rant/285516/52 "2005-01-21T03:21:05Z")
> [@Lamia](#): > > I don’t know if you’ve been skimming this thread or what, but **Neurotik** ’s comments were in response to my description of how Japanese junior high school kids that I’ve taught talked about anime. These were just regular kids, not tiny beret-wearing elitist art snobs. True, but your image of beret-wearing junior high art snobs is classic! Anyhow my rant wasn’t directed at you or the junior high people, but all of those art snobs that dismiss any genre entertainment as silly or childish. Good post though, I remember all too well how children are elitist. ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2005, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fag-isnt-insulting-to-gay-people-includes-anime-rant/285516/53 "2005-01-21T17:10:00Z")
> [@Epimetheus](#): > > True, but your image of beret-wearing junior high art snobs is classic! “I must say, I find the latest work of Britney Spears to be rather…pedestrian. Jessica Simpson, on the other hand, makes much better use of the ‘silly blonde pop star’ ethos in order to…” I think we need a beret or monocle-wearing snob smilie. 😉 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fag-isnt-insulting-to-gay-people-includes-anime-rant/285516.md?page=2)