# Fagot, Fishbed, Fitter, Farmer... **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 13, 2007, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fagot-fishbed-fitter-farmer/422584 "2007-10-13T14:53:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2007, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fagot-fishbed-fitter-farmer/422584/1 "2007-10-13T14:53:06Z")
I know _why_ NATO assigned codenames to Soviet aircraft, and I know the convention (‘F’ words for fighters, ‘H’ words for helicopters, etc.). But _how_ were the names chosen? The MiG-21 was a pretty good interceptor. Why ‘Fishbed’ and not ‘Falcon’ or ‘Firebird’? Why ‘Fagot’ for the MiG-15? Why not ‘Factor’? ‘Foxbat’, ‘Flanker’ and ‘Fencer’ are pretty good names for a fighter jet, but ‘Fishbed’ and ‘Farmer’ just seem a little too mundane and ‘Fagot’ seems insulting. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2007, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fagot-fishbed-fitter-farmer/422584/2 "2007-10-13T15:22:27Z")
No firm answer, just a few more observations. The original naming convention included 1 syllable for piston & two-syllable for jet, but that became obsolete pretty quickly. They later extended the 1 syllable convention to turboprops as well. I think the words were chosen mostly to be simple syllables easy to pronounce in the several langauges used in NATO. You wouldn’t want something that when pronounced by an Italian sounded so different that a Brit wouldn’t recognize the word. Using names that sound like fighter marketing-speak might have impacted later naming by NATO forces. Had NATO assgned “Falcon” to the MIG-19, GD would have had to name the later F-16 something else. No point in spotting the enemy all the cool names. Ultimately, they’re classic codewords. That is, terms chosen explicitly for NOT meaning anything. ---
**Author:** ![essell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/34f0e0/32.png) [@essell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/essell)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2007, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fagot-fishbed-fitter-farmer/422584/3 "2007-10-13T16:00:54Z")
WAG. Why not use insulting words to describe the enemy aircraft? Calling the bad guy names is a long standing tradition. ---
**Author:** ![Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/50afbb/32.png) [@Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duck_Duck_Goose)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2007, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fagot-fishbed-fitter-farmer/422584/4 "2007-10-13T16:27:58Z")
“Fagot” with one “g” doesn’t mean “homosexual”. If you look it up in a [dictionary,](http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/FAGOT) it means: > [@](#): > > Main Entry: > 1fag·ot Listen to the pronunciation of 1fagot > Variant(s): > or fag·got Listen to the pronunciation of faggot \ˈfa-gət > Function: > noun > Etymology: > Middle English fagot, from Anglo-French > Date: > 14th century > > : bundle : as a: a bundle of sticks b: a bundle of pieces of wrought iron to be shaped by rolling or hammering at high temperature So you can forget about the “let’s call enemy aircraft insulting names”. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2007, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fagot-fishbed-fitter-farmer/422584/5 "2007-10-13T16:34:48Z")
[QUOTE=Duck Duck Goose] “Fagot” with one “g” doesn’t mean “homosexual”. If you look it up in a [dictionary,](http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/FAGOT) it means: So you can forget about the “let’s call enemy aircraft insulting names”. [/QUOTE] I never said that’s what it means. My first thought was ‘Those Capitalist bastards are calling our Glorious Fighter a bundle of sticks!’ Still, they’re homonyms so others may construe it differently. > [@LSLGuy](#): > > Ultimately, they’re classic codewords. That is, terms chosen explicitly for NOT meaning anything. That makes sense. Like ‘Give me a six-letter noun.’ for certain projects. ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2007, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fagot-fishbed-fitter-farmer/422584/6 "2007-10-13T16:37:54Z")
[Homer Simpson]He, he, he said “homonyms!”[/HS] ---
**Author:** ![Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/50afbb/32.png) [@Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duck_Duck_Goose)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2007, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fagot-fishbed-fitter-farmer/422584/7 "2007-10-13T16:44:37Z")
[QUOTE=Johnny L.A.] I never said that’s what it means. [/QUOTE] No, but that was what **Essell’s** WAG was. I was talking to him. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2007, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fagot-fishbed-fitter-farmer/422584/8 "2007-10-13T16:52:48Z")
[QUOTE=Duck Duck Goose] No, but that was what **Essell’s** WAG was. I was talking to him. [/QUOTE] I’d be insulted if someone called my (very good) fighter a bundle of sticks. But re: the homonym. I can imagine radio chatter by Sabre pilots: ‘This place is full of Fagots!’ ‘Yeah, Fagots all over the place!’ ‘I’ve got two Fagots on my ass!’ ‘Ha! That Fagot’s going down!’ Which reminds me of this old joke: A crusty old fighter pilot was addressing a Ladies’ Group and telling of his experiences in the war. ‘Those Fockers were filling the sky. I had two Fockers on my tail, and another one in my sights…’ The Host interjected here, ‘I should point out that “Focker” is a type of German airplane.’ To which the pilot replied, ‘Yeah, but _these_ Fockers were _Messerschmitts!_’ _rimshot_ ---
**Author:** ![Crusoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/49beb7/32.png) [@Crusoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crusoe)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2007, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fagot-fishbed-fitter-farmer/422584/9 "2007-10-13T21:23:07Z")
WAG (in the absence of anything more definitive, since by all accounts I’ve read the NATO Air Standardisation Coordinating Committee (ASCC) has never publicised why certain names were selected): the names had to be clear and unambiguous (for radio communications) and (even more of a WAG) could not be too flattering (hence no Tu-1000 “Better Bomber Than We Have”).