# Fair & Balanced? PROVE IT! **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 11, 2013, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fair-balanced-prove-it/646816 "2013-01-11T02:49:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2013, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fair-balanced-prove-it/646816/21 "2013-01-11T13:21:27Z")
To compare like with like I’ll go with two comedian-pundits: Liberal: Bill Maher. I agree with many of his political positions but ye gods the man is an irritating asshole even before you get to the “religious people are crazy, vaccines are bad and did I mention I smoke weed?” stuff. He had interesting panels on _Real Time_ but I got so annoyed by his own interjections into the discussions that I gave up on the show. Conservative: PJ O’Rourke (although I don’t know how “conservative” he’s considered). Perfectly capable of making political points without assuming that people with other views are somehow deluded. There are liberals on this board I wish wouldn’t always chime in on certain subjects, and there are conservatives whose posts I usually find worthwhile. The dividing line is less “political stance” and more “presentation of views and willingness to consider other views”. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2013, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fair-balanced-prove-it/646816/22 "2013-01-11T13:31:36Z")
> [@Dave\_Hartwick](#): > > Cite that a majority of US conservatives espouse views towards gays similar to WBC, please. Cite that they don’t. I’ve watched the Right relentlessly fight to persecute and restrict the rights of homosexuals for my entire life. I’ve watched them oppose attempts to fight AIDS on the grounds of “let those disgusting sinning queers die”, I’ve watched then tell relatives at a funeral that their loved one is burning in hell for being homosexual, I’ve watched them terrorize, disown, brutalize and on occasion kill their own children for being homosexual, I’ve watched American evangelicals support the kill-all-homosexual law in Uganda, and of course they did totally ignore Westboro before Westboro started picking military funerals. If anything Westboro isn’t as bad as the mainstream, since as far as I know they haven’t been physically attacking homosexuals. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2013, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fair-balanced-prove-it/646816/23 "2013-01-11T13:44:59Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Ann Coulter delights in the passive-aggressive trick of demonizing the left with ridiculous hyperbole (see, e.g., “Demonic,”) and hides behind the claim that she’s just joshing. Actually, not. When she calls Democrats “treasonous”, for example, she does not hide behind humor when challenged. What she does do, is pretend that the questioner is not letting her answer. Q: Who, specifically is treasonous? AC: I don’t know where to begin. There are so many. Q: No, name people. I want to hear about specific people. AC: I’m trying to answer but you keep interrupting me. Q: OK, go ahed. AC: See, you keep interrupting me. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2013, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fair-balanced-prove-it/646816/24 "2013-01-11T14:28:51Z")
> [@Hottius\_Maximus](#): > > Liberals: I challenge you all to give an example of some liberals who have embarrassed YOU by making what you think are ignorant and ridiculous statements about the right. Most of the liberals I’m embarrassed by are on this message board. We’ve lost a couple of the more inane ones, but there are still too many shrieking harpies on the left who derail threads or lower the tone of discussion. I won’t name names, but nobody would be a bit surprised. > [@Hottius Maximus](#): > > Then tell us about a conservative that you agree with and respect and why. Here: I really respect and like **John Mace** , although I’m not sure he qualifies as a modern day conservative. Famous in Real Life: He’s gone now, but **William Buckley Jr.** was educated, whip smart, and damn funny and is sorely missed in modern political discussions. There are also plenty of fiscal conservatives who are socially liberal (Clint Eastwood before the whole chair talking thing) who I can respect. Real Life: My sister. She’s a wonderful person who would take a bullet for me and is a great mother, worker, and human being. She also works closely with the RNC. ---
**Author:** ![puddleglum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puddleglum/32/137_2.png) [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2013, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fair-balanced-prove-it/646816/25 "2013-01-11T14:38:52Z")
I think Larry Kudlow is embarassing, he is always going on about taxes like they are the only thing that matters and the investor class is just something he made up. I respect Nicholas Kristof because he seems open minded and skeptical about liberal dogmas. I respect Matthew Yglesias because he wrote a book about land use regulations with libertarian conclusions which tells me he has an open mind. ---
**Author:** ![Randvek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a6a055/32.png) [@Randvek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Randvek)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2013, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fair-balanced-prove-it/646816/26 "2013-01-11T20:24:25Z")
> [@amanset](#): > > Michael Moore. > > It seems like I should agree with him, but his highly questionable approach to documentary making makes me find him quite embarrassing. Michael Moore is an odd choice in an exercise like this because, generally, I don’t see him as extreme at all. I do agree that his methods often obfuscate that, though. I can’t count the number of people who say that Bowling for Columbine’s thesis was “guns are bad,” which is so, so far off the mark I wonder what people were thinking while watching it. Bill Maher might be my first choice. I loved Politically Incorrect and was a regular viewer, but he just went off the rails at some point and seems to be getting worse and worse, especially with his frequent attacks on religion. PETA is another great choice. I’m surprised they haven’t come up yet. Nothing embarrasses me more as a liberal than PETA’s publicity stunts. Greenpeace sometimes embarrasses me, but some of the stuff they do is great, so I’m not sure they count. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2013, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fair-balanced-prove-it/646816/27 "2013-01-11T22:07:36Z")
> [@Randvek](#): > > PETA is another great choice. I’m surprised they haven’t come up yet. Nothing embarrasses me more as a liberal than PETA’s publicity stunts. I don’t think that most liberals really think of PETA _as_ liberal, but more just as “those PETA whackos”. ---
**Author:** ![Dave\_Hartwick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7feea3/32.png) [@Dave\_Hartwick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dave_Hartwick)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2013, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fair-balanced-prove-it/646816/28 "2013-01-11T22:14:04Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Cite that they don’t. I’ve watched the Right relentlessly fight to persecute and restrict the rights of homosexuals for my entire life. > [@](#): > > Recent polls show that > > 66 percent of Republicans support employment nondiscrimination legislation (Greenberg Quinlan poll). > > A majority of Republicans are satisfied with the repeal of Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell (National Journal poll). > > 57 percent of Republicans support either same sex marriage or civil unions (Fox News poll). > > Only 37 percent of Republicans support a federal marriage amendment (National Journal poll). > > 49 percent of young Republicans (18-29) support marriage equality (Public Religion Research Institute poll). > **[Republicans Must Evolve On Gay Rights And Marriage, Just As Democrats Did](https://www.huffpost.com/entry/republicans-gay-rights_b_2138395)** > > Even though gay rights issues rarely came up during the general election campaign, the country remains deeply divided on gay rights and same-sex marriage. The widely held premise that only the support of Democrats is needed to bring us full legal... ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2013, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fair-balanced-prove-it/646816/29 "2013-01-11T22:17:50Z")
Well if that’s true\* I’m honestly and pleasantly surprised. \*Huffingtonpost isn’t the most accurate of places [I’m told](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=678494). ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2013, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fair-balanced-prove-it/646816/30 "2013-01-11T22:56:44Z")
Andrea Dworkin never expressly said “All sex between a man and woman is rape,” (it’s yet another conservative lie) but she did dance around the idea quite closely, and many of the feminists who advocated censorship and claimed that men in general were rapists or potential rapists pissed me off big time. There are a lot of men who are husbands and fathers of daughters, or who are simply sane human beings, who have no interest in rape and hate rapists enough to help put them in jail for years when the opportunity presents itself. I hated to see the prudo-feminists lumping all men with rapists. There are no conservatives I can think of offhand that I like, the most I can manage is a wary sense that they are not completely evil. Their values are just WRONG, and I can’t help but believe that they come from some wounded, broken or otherwise damaged part of their psyche that makes them unable to care about others. Because to me, that’s where conservativism (and especially libertarianism) fails: the closest they can come to caring about others is personal charity, a poor substitute for wanting to get in there as a society and SOLVE THE FRICKING PROBLEMS. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2013, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fair-balanced-prove-it/646816/31 "2013-01-11T23:33:58Z")
Michael Moore springs immediately to mind. He’s so dishonest. Feminists who see oppression in _everything_. Feminists who hate (or even distrust) men. PETA. People who use phrases like ‘‘fascist’’ to describe U.S. political figures or threaten to leave the country… oh my god back when Bush was President you never heard the end of it. People who hate Christians. I am very, very socially and fiscally liberal but honestly I’m getting tired of most left-wing rhetoric. Conservative I respect… Chris Christie, the current governor of the state I reside, New Jersey. I don’t think he has an inauthentic bone in his body. I don’t agree with a lot of his policy choices, but when we were hit by Sandy he did a bang-up job of keeping shit together and I have the sense that he really cared about us. Plus he’s not afraid to call out bullshit for bullshit… like when people were pissed at him for nominating a Muslim to some state position… he said, on camera: > [@](#): > > ''Sharia law has nothing to do with this at all. It’s crazy. It’s crazy," Christie said at a press conference Wednesday. “The guy’s an American citizen who has been an admitted lawyer to practice in the state of New Jersey, swearing an oath to uphold the laws of New Jersey, the constitution of the state of New Jersey, and the Constitution of the United States of America . . . .This Sharia law business is crap. It’s just crazy. And I’m tired of dealing with the crazies.” I like him so damned much that I would actually consider voting for him. ---
**Author:** ![Dave\_Hartwick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7feea3/32.png) [@Dave\_Hartwick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dave_Hartwick)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2013, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fair-balanced-prove-it/646816/32 "2013-01-12T03:12:40Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Well if that’s true\* I’m honestly and pleasantly surprised. They look like they might be cherry-picked to me, but even if they are it still goes to show that the average Republican is miles away from the stance of the WBC on gay rights; a fact that would be completely unsurprising to most, I’d expect. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2013, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fair-balanced-prove-it/646816/33 "2013-01-12T03:27:31Z")
> [@Dave\_Hartwick](#): > > They look like they might be cherry-picked to me, but even if they are it still goes to show that the average Republican is miles away from the stance of the WBC on gay rights; a fact that would be completely unsurprising to most, I’d expect. Considering how many people I’ve seen point out that the public wasn’t offended by Westboro until they started picketing _military_ funerals, I think _you’d_ be surprised at how many people would be surprised at those numbers, or simply disbelieve them. If the silent majority of the Republicans are pro-gay rights, they are very silent indeed. ---
**Author:** ![Hottius\_Maximus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3ab097/32.png) [@Hottius\_Maximus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hottius_Maximus)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2013, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fair-balanced-prove-it/646816/34 "2013-01-12T03:42:05Z")
Since I know that my comments about Westborough “Baptist” Heathens seems a bit too easy for some on the left, let me give you two other embarrassing people whom I may agree with in principle but My GOODNESS they come off as bitter and angry. Sean Hannity & Rush Limbaugh. Here’s a basic example and I thought this BEFORE I heard Bernard Goldberg throw it in Hannity’s face: After that incident where one of the Somali pirates got shot, Rush had the f—king NERVE to call Obama a “murderer” for giving the order to shoot the pirate if necessary! Can you believe that shit!? We all know damn good and well that had Obama done nothing and the Captain had been killed then Rush would have led the charge to BLAME OBAMA for weakness! So when Goldberg and Hannity were discussing this same subject on Fox News (although in all fairness Hannity did NOT refer to President Obama as a murderer) and Hannity refused to give any real credit to President Obama’s leadership, Goldberg went off on and him said that “Remember how the left would NEVER give ANY credit to George W. Bush? He could have discovered a cure for cancer and the left STILL would never acknowledge it! Well, that’s what I see too many people on the RIGHT DOING NOW with President Obama!” He went on to tell Hannity to knock off the partisan hatred and start behaving like an adult! I’ll give you another liberal that I admire even though I may not always agree with him: President Barack Obama. Although I did not vote for him in 2008, I DID vote for him in 2012. Why? Because if we think about it, he kept GITMO open; he stepped up the drone attacks even moreso than W. did to kill terrorists; he kept the warrantless wiretaps going; he continues the policy of sending captured terror suspects to the secret overseas prisons where coerced interrogations occur; and yes he gave the kill order to the Navy SEALS to get Osama Bin Laden. FYI—I am NOT going to get into a discussion here on the ethics of all those things I just listed—you either approve of them or you don’t—however I do want to say that what I just wrote EASILY DEMONSTRATES THE HYPOCRISY of BOTH SIDES. How? Many conservatives STILL REFUSE to give Mr. Obama ANY credit for his accomplishments in the War on Terror yet when Mr. Bush did those things the right wingers were GUNG HO for it! HYPOCRISY of the HIGHEST ORDER! However, the hypocrisy does NOT stop there! Numerous left wingers (including the New York Times editorial writers) BASHED President Bush (and Dick Cheney too) for indulging in the practices I mentioned above HOWEVER these same left wingers that were crying out “War CRIMINALS” when the Bush/Cheney Administration practiced them are suddenly SILENT when President Obama does the SAME DAMN THING! AGAIN: HYPOCRITES! So why was it so wrong when the right did it but now that their man on the left is doing the same thing then all of a sudden the sound of crickets in the night replaces their rallying cries of torture and war crimes? We all know the answer. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2013, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fair-balanced-prove-it/646816/35 "2013-01-12T03:47:19Z")
> [@Hottius\_Maximus](#): > > I’ll give you another liberal that I admire even though I may not always agree with him: President Barack Obama. He’s not a liberal. ---
**Author:** ![Hottius\_Maximus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3ab097/32.png) [@Hottius\_Maximus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hottius_Maximus)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2013, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fair-balanced-prove-it/646816/36 "2013-01-12T03:52:26Z")
> [@monavis](#): > > Looking into the writings and quotes that were about Jesus, he was a liberal from the word go.To me he sounded like he considerd the Pharisees( that he seemed to despise) were neo- conservatives > > .He made excuses for the adultress, told the rich young man to sell all he had and give it to the poor,and called the letter of the law Pharisees hypocrites, sons of Satan ,white washed tombs. Nearly a whole chapter of Matthew is filled with his dislike of the Pharisees. I mention this because most of the Republican base is the extreme right! Actually Jesus didn’t really make any excuses for the adulteress. He still loved her and asked “Has no one condemned you?” When she said no then Jesus said “Neither do I condemn you…” BUT Jesus was sure to add this next part: “But AVOID this sin in the future” or some quotes have Him saying “Go and sin no more.” I would hardly call this “excusing” the adulteress. In fact Jesus forgave her sins but forgiving somebody and excusing somebody are two different things. Jesus loves everybody but yes He did despise the blatant hypocrisy of the Pharisees. Not to compare myself with Jesus, but if you look at my posts here you’ll see that I despise hypocrisy myself and I can easily point it out on both the right and left sides of the political spectrum. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2013, 6:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fair-balanced-prove-it/646816/37 "2013-01-12T06:21:50Z")
> [@Hottius\_Maximus](#): > > Jesus loves everybody . . . Physically. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2013, 6:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fair-balanced-prove-it/646816/38 "2013-01-12T06:23:14Z")
> [@Hottius\_Maximus](#): > > Not to compare myself with Jesus . . . Shut up and cross your feet, I only have three nails left. ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2013, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fair-balanced-prove-it/646816/39 "2013-01-12T13:15:49Z")
> [@Hottius\_Maximus](#): > > Actually Jesus didn’t really make any excuses for the adulteress. He still loved her and asked “Has no one condemned you?” When she said no then Jesus said “Neither do I condemn you…” BUT Jesus was sure to add this next part: “But AVOID this sin in the future” or some quotes have Him saying “Go and sin no more.” I would hardly call this “excusing” the adulteress. In fact Jesus forgave her sins but forgiving somebody and excusing somebody are two different things. Jesus loves everybody but yes He did despise the blatant hypocrisy of the Pharisees. Not to compare myself with Jesus, but if you look at my posts here you’ll see that I despise hypocrisy myself and I can easily point it out on both the right and left sides of the political spectrum. Yes, you are correct he did tell her to sin no more,but he didn’t condemn her like the pople he spoke to, just reminded them of their own faults, neo -conservatives like the Pharisees saw themselves as better than her. Sounds to me like Jesus was more like the liberals who say let God judge.he surely didn’t like the holier than thou Conservatives of his day! ---
**Author:** ![Razncain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9d8465/32.png) [@Razncain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Razncain)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2013, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fair-balanced-prove-it/646816/40 "2013-01-12T15:02:45Z")
I like this story, and think Jesus really shined here with the adulteress, even though nearly all scholars are in agreement that the story is interpolation and added late to the Gospel of John, the only place it appears. No doubt if Jesus existed he was the progressive of his day, although he could have went a lot further with it. The damning eternal hell-fire doctrine for non-believers made him actually far more cruel than the OT god though. At least when that god had you dead, he only killed you once. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fair-balanced-prove-it/646816.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fair-balanced-prove-it/646816.md?page=3)