# "Fair winds and following seas" - origin? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [February 12, 2004, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fair-winds-and-following-seas-origin/228932 "2004-02-12T23:00:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 7\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![gleeb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f14d63/32.png) [@gleeb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gleeb)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2004, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fair-winds-and-following-seas-origin/228932/1 "2004-02-12T23:00:12Z")
The phrase in the title is one often used by Navy personnel and Merchant Marines as a wish of good fortune, especially on the event of a retirement. From where does it come? The OED has a first entry for “following” in the sense of a favorable wind, moving in one’s direction of travel. However, they also not that the Latin phrase “ventus secundus” was used in the same way as “following wind”. I have looked in several dictionaries of quotations, in a couple etymology books, and checked a couple web sites. Any nautical dopers able to pilot me to the answer? ---
**Author:** ![gleeb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f14d63/32.png) [@gleeb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gleeb)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2004, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fair-winds-and-following-seas-origin/228932/2 "2004-02-12T23:02:34Z")
> [@](#): > > The OED has a first entry for “following” in the sense of a favorable wind, moving in one’s direction of travel. In 1807. Sorry, I left that out. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2004, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fair-winds-and-following-seas-origin/228932/3 "2004-02-12T23:41:46Z")
My family was in the merchant marine in the days of sail. Basically, a following wind meant that you got from A to B faster. Fair seas meant no storms et al. ---
**Author:** ![Xema](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9de053/32.png) [@Xema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xema)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2004, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fair-winds-and-following-seas-origin/228932/4 "2004-02-13T00:17:07Z")
> [@qts](#): > > My family was in the merchant marine in the days of sail. Basically, a following wind meant that you got from A to B faster. Fair seas meant no storms et al. But the expression is “fair winds and following seas.” Fair winds are those that allow you to head toward your destination without tacking (zig-zagging to make slow progress upwind) and following seas are basically swells (broad wave systems) that are moving in generally the same direction as you are. I can’t help much with the origin of the phrase. Since its meaning is direct and obvious (sort of like saying, “may you walk with the wind at your back”), it will probably be hard to pinpoint. ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2004, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fair-winds-and-following-seas-origin/228932/5 "2004-02-13T03:12:15Z")
Here’s the problem. “Following seas” is an expression that I can only find in an on-line newspaper database from 1887. That doesn’t mean it didn’t appear before. Just that it probably wasn’t used a lot prior to that general time. If it were a general phrase, OED would have had it I think. So, to think that the entire phrase “fair winds and following seas” is old is probably not true. At least, it wasn’t that common, probably. The database had the entire phrase from 1972. Again, it was probably used before that, but not likely in the 19th century, nor likely in the early 20th. ---
**Author:** ![gleeb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f14d63/32.png) [@gleeb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gleeb)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2004, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fair-winds-and-following-seas-origin/228932/6 "2004-02-13T14:56:29Z")
> [@](#): > > Here’s the problem. > > “Following seas” is an expression that I can only find in an on-line newspaper database from 1887. That doesn’t mean it didn’t appear before. Just that it probably wasn’t used a lot prior to that general time. If it were a general phrase, OED would have had it I think. > > So, to think that the entire phrase “fair winds and following seas” is old is probably not true. At least, it wasn’t that common, probably. > The database had the entire phrase from 1972. Again, it was probably used before that, but not likely in the 19th century, nor likely in the early 20th. Indeed. I only quoted the OED citation to set a sort of earliest possible date. What database were you using? ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2004, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fair-winds-and-following-seas-origin/228932/7 "2004-02-13T23:23:55Z")
I use **newspaperarchive** , which is a pay to play subscription thing, unless you’re fortunate enough to have a local library which gets it.