# Fairytale of New York warning **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [December 26, 2017, 6:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fairytale-of-new-york-warning/805301 "2017-12-26T06:10:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2017, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fairytale-of-new-york-warning/805301/41 "2017-12-27T02:39:08Z")
There is no rule change whatsoever with the clarification that Chronos posted. From the [FAQ:](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=7697048&postcount=11) [quote=“C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven, post:11, topic:369395”] Falsely attributing a quote to another user, or modifying another’s post in order to cast him/her in a bad light, even if meant in jest, is grounds for revocation of your posting privileges. \*\* This does not apply to parodies to which no name is attached. \*\* Text inside [QUOTE] tags is sacrosanct. Normal editorial rules apply: that is, you may indicate omitted portions of a quote by the use of ellipses “…” and you may add text to clarify a word using square brackets (e.g., “her [the sister’s] friend”), but you may \*\*not \*\* add editorial comments or edit a quote so as to change the substantive meaning; nor may you substitute text such as “some blather” or “more nonsense” inside the > [@](#): > > tags. (my bold) ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2017, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fairytale-of-new-york-warning/805301/42 "2017-12-27T03:20:45Z")
Just chiming in with other moderators who are reminding all that we have as our overriding rule–don’t be a jerk. And we moderators are liable to **strike down jerks** at our whim. It is such a powerful rule, we don’t have to justify it when we wield it. So, keep telling yourself that you found an exception/loophole. It just might be a rabbit hole. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2017, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fairytale-of-new-york-warning/805301/43 "2017-12-27T03:52:52Z")
IANAL, but it seems to me that a group of people, each person posting one line of a work, are operating with a common purpose and that purpose, which seems to be to copy the work, is actually the group violating copyright law. Can one of the board’s legal beagles explain why that is not the case? ---
**Author:** ![Crazyhorse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crazyhorse/32/31_2.png) [@Crazyhorse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crazyhorse)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2017, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fairytale-of-new-york-warning/805301/44 "2017-12-27T03:55:30Z")
> [@](#): > > The rule has always been that text inside a quote box preceeded by the words “Originally posted by…” and a poster’s name is considered to be sacrosanct and unalterable except for basic editorial changes. Nothing written inside an unattributed quote box, quotation marks, typed in italics, etc. can violate that rule. But there are quite a few others that it might. Thank you \*\*samclem \*\*for saying it so well. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2017, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fairytale-of-new-york-warning/805301/45 "2017-12-27T04:36:31Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > IANAL, but it seems to me that a group of people, each person posting one line of a work, are operating with a common purpose and that purpose, which seems to be to copy the work, is actually the group violating copyright law. Can one of the board’s legal beagles explain why that is not the case? IANAL but you’d have to prove they were operating in concert. Good luck with that. ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Shine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr_shine/32/464_2.png) [@Mr\_Shine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Shine)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2017, 5:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fairytale-of-new-york-warning/805301/46 "2017-12-27T05:16:27Z")
Just to reiterate, as people still claim there was a personal insult, the changed quote means “this thread is pointless and shit”, no personal insult unless you’re anthropomorphising the thread. ---
**Author:** ![Penfeather](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/penfeather/32/384_2.png) [@Penfeather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Penfeather)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2017, 6:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fairytale-of-new-york-warning/805301/47 "2017-12-27T06:24:40Z")
> [@samclem](#): > > IANAL but you’d have to prove they were operating in concert. Good luck with that. My suspicion was first aroused by the thread title “Fairytale of New York”. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2017, 10:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fairytale-of-new-york-warning/805301/48 "2017-12-27T10:33:08Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > IANAL, but it seems to me that a group of people, each person posting one line of a work, are operating with a common purpose and that purpose, which seems to be to copy the work, is actually the group violating copyright law. Can one of the board’s legal beagles explain why that is not the case? It is a copyright violation. That’s why the thread was closed in addition to moderating **Mr. Shine**. ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2017, 12:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fairytale-of-new-york-warning/805301/49 "2017-12-27T12:08:51Z")
If, like me, you wondered why Google can display song lyrics as search results, [wonder no more.](https://www.billboard.com/articles/business/7416691/google-licenses-lyricfind-search-results) ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2017, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fairytale-of-new-york-warning/805301/50 "2017-12-27T14:33:08Z")
The “shit” sure looked like a vocative to me. Were you speaking to the thread itself? ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2017, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fairytale-of-new-york-warning/805301/51 "2017-12-27T14:35:36Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > … > > I can think of several posters who will take immediate abusive advantage of such. In a New York minute no less! ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Shine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr_shine/32/464_2.png) [@Mr\_Shine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Shine)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2017, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fairytale-of-new-york-warning/805301/52 "2017-12-27T14:58:59Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > The “shit” sure looked like a vocative to me. Were you speaking to the thread itself? The basic idea was a hypothetical opinion giver that offers up the opinion “this thread is pointless”, pauses a little before saying “shit” and doesn’t get round to offering a third adjective. This was done to minimise actual change from the source, just an extra space and a comma. I did not, and still don’t, see how it would make sense as as a personal insult, (to HL or L13 or any other individual person.) ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2017, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fairytale-of-new-york-warning/805301/53 "2017-12-27T16:23:56Z")
Dude, you set the record for the greatest number of infractions in the fewest words. I could go back and do the math, but it appears you were on a 3 words per infraction roll there. I’d quietly let this drop. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2017, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fairytale-of-new-york-warning/805301/54 "2017-12-27T16:27:19Z")
"Wow, a ridiculous thread, shit. " You really don’t see how it’s an insult? Try this. Suppose someone wrote “Wow, a ridiculous thread, idiot .” This would be parsed as calling the OP an idiot. Obviously. So you used \*shit \*instead of _idiot_. It sure as hell looks like you’re calling the OP a shit. ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2017, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fairytale-of-new-york-warning/805301/55 "2017-12-27T16:28:07Z")
The thing is, commas by themselves don’t mean “and”. For a comma separated list, you need an ending “and” or an ending “or” to define the case of the list. The commas are just demarcations of each item. So when you said, “Wow, what a ridiculous thread, shit,” that would not regularly be interpreted by a formal reader to mean “what a ridiculous and shitty thread”. Rather, the comma separation at the end suggests you are addressing someone by calling that person “shit”. Who you are addressing is then further confusing as to whether you are addressing yourself that way, or addressing **Lucky 13** that way. An alternative interpretation might be that shit is merely serving as an interjection or intensifier, as in “This thread sucks, dammit.” That is a viable interpretation that does not violate the rules. ---
**Author:** ![Rilchiam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rilchiam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rilchiam)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2017, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fairytale-of-new-york-warning/805301/56 "2017-12-27T18:15:26Z")
All I know is, this singalong, or postalong, has been an SDMB Christmas tradition for many years. I’d hate to see it come to an end. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2017, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fairytale-of-new-york-warning/805301/57 "2017-12-27T18:22:41Z")
> [@Mr\_Shine](#): > > The basic idea was a hypothetical opinion giver that offers up the opinion “this thread is pointless”, pauses a little before saying “shit” and doesn’t get round to offering a third adjective. This was done to minimise actual change from the source, just an extra space and a comma. I did not, and still don’t, see how it would make sense as as a personal insult, (to HL or L13 or any other individual person.) So if I understand you, you are saying it wasn’t meant as a personal insult. Instead it was a threadshit. ---
**Author:** ![Cartooniverse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cartooniverse/32/3084_2.png) [@Cartooniverse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cartooniverse)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2017, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fairytale-of-new-york-warning/805301/58 "2017-12-28T01:24:58Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > While the moderators discuss this matter amongst themselves, so then shall the members. > > A representative from each group will publish our decisions before the passing of a fortnight. –Golf clap– Then, at the appointed hour and at the appointed location ( the Wollman Rink’s south end in Central Park, NYC ) at the stroke of 7:45 PM EST, the _M.I.T._ ( Members In Toto™ ) shall issue their findings. Then, hot chocolate shall ensue. Penis shall not ensue- it’s the Holidays. ---
**Author:** ![GreysonCarlisle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a87d85/32.png) [@GreysonCarlisle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreysonCarlisle)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2017, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fairytale-of-new-york-warning/805301/59 "2017-12-28T02:25:06Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > IANAL, but it seems to me that a group of people, each person posting one line of a work, are operating with a common purpose and that purpose, which seems to be to copy the work, is actually the group violating copyright law. Can one of the board’s legal beagles explain why that is not the case? Each of those posts may have technically been copyright infringement in its own right. Lyrics are generally short, so the ratio of the quantity used to the length of the original is pretty high, even just for a single line. On top of that, practically every word of the lyrics to a song is considered artistically expressive, meaning that the quality of each line is also significant to the original whole. Since both amount and substantiality are likely above _de minimis_ standards, we then have to turn to the four points of Fair Use. Purpose and character of the use (no money involved, just guys having some fun) would tilt toward Fair Use, but that’s offset by the aforementioned amount and substantiality. The effect of our use on the market value of the original is essentially nil, so that favors Fair Use as well, but the nature of the original song is a fully creative effort (as opposed to, say, a biographical sketch of a famous person), so that tips the scales back to infringement. Every use is different, of course, but any publication (even on a messageboard) of copyrighted lyrics is more likely than not to technically be infringement. That’s an academic distinction, really, since nobody’s going to take the matter to court over a few lines posted on a messageboard, even if it all eventually adds up to the whole song. Not unless there were some other shenanigans at play. I wouldn’t put any of the individual lines on a tee shirt and sell it for profit, though. ---
**Author:** ![Lucky\_13](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lucky_13/32/13209_2.png) [@Lucky\_13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lucky_13)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2017, 5:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fairytale-of-new-york-warning/805301/60 "2017-12-28T05:49:37Z")
Am the OP of the thread in question, here with my .02. I started the thread thinking I was only perpetuating a harmless holiday SDMB tradition, completely clueless that each poster adding a line of the song = whole song, therefore copyright infringement. I stand corrected. And no, I don’t feel insulted - I thought he was calling the thread “shit,” not me or any other Doper. (walks away, “I Started A Joke” playing in the background) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fairytale-of-new-york-warning/805301.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fairytale-of-new-york-warning/805301.md?page=4)