# Faith an' Begorrah--the Annual St. Paddy's Gay Controversy! **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 27, 2003, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/faith-an-begorrah-the-annual-st-paddys-gay-controversy/157986 "2003-02-27T21:52:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2003, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/faith-an-begorrah-the-annual-st-paddys-gay-controversy/157986/21 "2003-03-02T19:43:52Z")
Oh, for Heaven’s sake! Gay Irish Catholics? Don’t be ridiculous! You could travel the entire country from end to end and not find a single person with the slightest sense of interior design. ---
**Author:** ![ClawsOfCatt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/87869e/32.png) [@ClawsOfCatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ClawsOfCatt)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2003, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/faith-an-begorrah-the-annual-st-paddys-gay-controversy/157986/22 "2003-03-02T22:26:13Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by DrMatrix \* > \*\*The Ancient Order of Hibernians organize the parade. If they think a banner is not appropriate, then it’s not. While I wish they didn’t feel that way, it’s not up to me (or ILGO) to decide who can march or what marchers can carry. It’s up to the organizers. It’s _their_ parade. \*\* Then my question would be, what other banners do they ban? Have they banned any others? What group would they ban simply for carrying a banner that describes who they are? Do they ban a banner for black New Yorkers, or Jewish New Yorkers? ---
**Author:** ![beagledave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6de8d8/32.png) [@beagledave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beagledave)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2003, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/faith-an-begorrah-the-annual-st-paddys-gay-controversy/157986/23 "2003-03-02T23:28:55Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ClawsOfCatt \* > \*\*Then my question would be, what other banners do they ban? Have they banned any others? > > What group would they ban simply for carrying a banner that describes who they are? Do they ban a banner for black New Yorkers, or Jewish New Yorkers? \*\* Cuz lord knows there’s **lots** of black and Jewish folks who are Irish… :smack: Sorry but I’m with Bricker and Dr Matrix here. Yeah it’d be nice if the AOH had a different viewpoint. However, I’m not sure that **this** is the kind of event one wants to expend political capital on. YMMV. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2003, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/faith-an-begorrah-the-annual-st-paddys-gay-controversy/157986/24 "2003-03-02T23:42:24Z")
OK, the Hibernians organize the parade. They’re a private group. Correct me if I’m wrong, but I don’t believe they’re a religious group. St. Patrick may have been a Catholic saint, but in the USA, his feast day has become an occasion for expressions of overwhelmingly secular Irish pride. Just because you ask for a permit to have a parade on a particular day, doesn’t mean the city has to give you the time and route you want. (For instance, if a bunch of Dopers semi-organized by Triskadecamus file for permission to march down Constitution Avenue in DC, it doesn’t mean they’ll give us that route.) But (just a WAG here) I’ll bet the Hibernians have a route and a schedule that the city treats as if it were the Hibernians’ private land grant every March 17. The city is well within its rights to say to the Hibernians, “If you discriminate on the basis of any of the usual stuff, including sexual orientation, in accepting groups, banners, floats, etc. in your parade, then we’ll let you march through Bedford-Stuyvesant next year, and give your usual route to someone else.” Maybe it’s time they did that. And if they show no signs of moving in that direction, then maybe the citizens of NYC should put some pressure on their municipal leaders to that end. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2003, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/faith-an-begorrah-the-annual-st-paddys-gay-controversy/157986/25 "2003-03-02T23:44:33Z")
> [@](#): > > Cuz lord knows there’s lots of black and Jewish folks who are Irish… Well…if there was a group for black or Jewish Irish folk (hey, it could happen), would it be alright to not let them carry a banner in the parade? It’s easy for me to look at this as trivial. Parades are boring and full of attention whores. However, this policy sucks. Those who are fighting this fight get a thumbs-up from me. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2003, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/faith-an-begorrah-the-annual-st-paddys-gay-controversy/157986/26 "2003-03-02T23:47:08Z")
> [@](#): > > then we’ll let you march through Bedford-Stuyvesant next year, and give your usual route to someone else." Better yet, assign them a route through Greenwich Village via Christopher Street. ---
**Author:** ![Mehitabel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8797f3/32.png) [@Mehitabel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mehitabel)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2003, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/faith-an-begorrah-the-annual-st-paddys-gay-controversy/157986/27 "2003-03-03T00:20:21Z")
I agree with the folks who say the AOH have the right to march with whom they want and I wish they’d not be so persnickety. However, one thing about the gay group that wants to march that ticks people off partly because they formed solely to march in the parade. This was seen as opportunism and kind of shouldering your way into a place waving the banner of gay rights, which frankly most of the people in my heavily Irish neighborhood are in favor of. ---
**Author:** ![ruadh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d2c977/32.png) [@ruadh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ruadh)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2003, 7:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/faith-an-begorrah-the-annual-st-paddys-gay-controversy/157986/28 "2003-03-03T07:56:56Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Spavined Gelding \* > **Hold on here, the exclusion of homosexuals from polite society is as honorable a part of Irish heritage as flinging hand grenades at British soldiers. The AOH must up hold the tradition.** Actually, here in Dublin where gays march in the parade with no problem, their exclusion from the New York parade is considered a peculiarly American hangup. ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2003, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/faith-an-begorrah-the-annual-st-paddys-gay-controversy/157986/29 "2003-03-04T02:48:01Z")
> [@](#): > > Irish Queers Just Say No to Bloomberg Just when I thought Manny was pulling away, here comes David back into the lead. 😃 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/faith-an-begorrah-the-annual-st-paddys-gay-controversy/157986.md?page=1)