# Faith-based presidents, reality-based distress

**URL:** <https://boards.straightdope.com/t/faith-based-presidents-reality-based-distress/269848>\
**Category:** Great Debates\
**Created:** [October 18, 2004, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/faith-based-presidents-reality-based-distress/269848 "2004-10-18T16:07:43Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 1\
**Page:** 2

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**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\
**Post date:** [October 20, 2004, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/faith-based-presidents-reality-based-distress/269848/21 "2004-10-20T00:50:28Z")

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[hijack]I was with AHunter3 up to this point:

> [@AHunter3](#):
>
> If we’re going to spread democracy, we need to do it not by upending established governments via force but by turning the UN (or a more suitable replacement) into a truly democratic and representative world system with voluntary membership and the advantages it accords available to nations that provide democratic participatory rights to their own citizens…

1. This is really a hijack.

2. If it’s a club only open to democracies, then it’s something akin the the EU, not the UN.

3. An organization of governments will play a coordinating role, even if not all of them are democracies. So I’d keep the UN _sans_ illusions about it.

4. You have basically provided one incentive here for countries to democratize. That’s fine, but there are others and I doubt whether this will play a critical role. Also, let’s remember that elections are not the be-all and end-all: the extension and spread of civil society is also important.  
[/hijack]

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