# Faith, religion, and the afterlife: A form of denial **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 2, 2014, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/faith-religion-and-the-afterlife-a-form-of-denial/677713 "2014-01-02T16:57:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 29
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2014, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/faith-religion-and-the-afterlife-a-form-of-denial/677713/561 "2014-01-28T20:52:30Z")
> [@cosmosdan](#): > > I agree, it depends on the belief and how it affects others. God wants me to be kind, to love and forgive, to promote peace, to feed the hungry etc > > It seems pointless to respond to that with, “God belief is delusional” Hardly. If “God says so” is why they are doing things, then they are just one bad preacher or bigoted opinion away from “Kill the heretic! Smite the sinner!” People who do what they do because their god “says so” are amoral, not moral. ---
**Author:** ![arielburns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/6de8d8/32.png) [@arielburns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/arielburns)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2014, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/faith-religion-and-the-afterlife-a-form-of-denial/677713/562 "2014-01-28T21:59:11Z")
Meh. That’s certainly not the case for me. I merely find no substantial dialogue going on that seems to benefit people in any way most of the time. It’s just I think this, and others think that, and that’s stupid. You’ll find me disclosing my beliefs when it’s tacked on to a subject, where I use it to explain why I perceive things the way I do. I’m more the type of person to enjoy finding out about someone else’s beliefs as part of the gift of getting to know someone and appreciate how they process things. I find even more pleasure in finding commonalities of goodness and positive strengths no matter what the outer lying system holds. The lack of connection in intellectualizing this argument is palpable and just seems pointless. ---
**Author:** ![arielburns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/6de8d8/32.png) [@arielburns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/arielburns)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2014, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/faith-religion-and-the-afterlife-a-form-of-denial/677713/563 "2014-01-28T22:02:36Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > I think it’s the other way around-if merely talking about your beliefs upsets you to the point that you wish all conversation on the subject to stop, then perhaps your beliefs aren’t as strong as you think they are. “The weakest blade of grass is equal to the mightiest oak if left untouched.” Meh. That’s certainly not the case for me. I merely find no substantial dialogue going on that seems to benefit people in any way most of the time. It’s just I think this, and others think that, and that’s stupid. You’ll find me disclosing my beliefs when it’s tacked on to a subject, where I use it to explain why I perceive things the way I do. I’m more the type of person to enjoy finding out about someone else’s beliefs as part of the gift of getting to know someone and appreciate how they process things. I find even more pleasure in finding commonalities of goodness and positive strengths no matter what the outer lying system holds. The lack of connection in intellectualizing this argument is palpable and just seems pointless. ---
**Author:** ![arielburns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/6de8d8/32.png) [@arielburns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/arielburns)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2014, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/faith-religion-and-the-afterlife-a-form-of-denial/677713/564 "2014-01-28T22:07:16Z")
> [@cosmosdan](#): > > I agree, it depends on the belief and how it affects others. God wants me to be kind, to love and forgive, to promote peace, to feed the hungry etc > > It seems pointless to respond to that with, “God belief is delusional” > > Respond to the act, and the repercussions of the act. > > I think people have a basic right to follow their own path and be true to their beliefs, but they must also be willing to take responsibility for the actions they choose based on their beliefs and how those actions affect others. > > A jerk is a jerk and god belief doesn’t matter. I just don’t know why anyone would need to say God wants them to be kind, love and forgive. Why not just do it? I’m sure no one would disagree no matter what they believe in. I think it naturally irks people to hear others proselytize no matter which direction it’s in. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2014, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/faith-religion-and-the-afterlife-a-form-of-denial/677713/565 "2014-01-28T22:11:08Z")
> [@arielburns](#): > > I just don’t know why anyone would need to say God wants them to be kind, love and forgive. Why not just do it? According to many Christians, because without believing in God everyone would be amoral psychopaths robbing and raping and killing everyone they came across. > [@arielburns](#): > > I’m sure no one would disagree no matter what they believe in. No; plenty of people _aren’t_ kind, forgiving or loving. ---
**Author:** ![arielburns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/6de8d8/32.png) [@arielburns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/arielburns)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2014, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/faith-religion-and-the-afterlife-a-form-of-denial/677713/566 "2014-01-28T22:14:34Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > It’s something to do on a slow afternoon… Seriously, it’s a fascinating topic, of (almost!) infinite depth, and of a rich historical tradition. It lets us stretch our minds a little. Wow, I like to spend countless hours winding around in circles with people on logic that can never be backed up because its power lies in the essence of its own subjectivity. Honestly, this is what I think. I think this is a way people can be angry at other people because of being mistreated over the topic in the past, usually in a forum where someone had more power and control and they were being told how to think. Religion or a-religion is used as power/control pandering. I also think people use it to be pontificating bullies. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2014, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/faith-religion-and-the-afterlife-a-form-of-denial/677713/567 "2014-01-28T22:14:46Z")
> [@arielburns](#): > > Meh. That’s certainly not the case for me. I merely find no substantial dialogue going on that seems to benefit people in any way most of the time. It’s just I think this, and others think that, and that’s stupid. You’ll find me disclosing my beliefs when it’s tacked on to a subject, where I use it to explain why I perceive things the way I do. I’m more the type of person to enjoy finding out about someone else’s beliefs as part of the gift of getting to know someone and appreciate how they process things. I find even more pleasure in finding commonalities of goodness and positive strengths no matter what the outer lying system holds. The lack of connection in intellectualizing this argument is palpable and just seems pointless. Perchance, did you happen to notice the name of the forum you are currently posting in? ---
**Author:** ![arielburns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/6de8d8/32.png) [@arielburns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/arielburns)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2014, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/faith-religion-and-the-afterlife-a-form-of-denial/677713/568 "2014-01-28T22:24:44Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > Agreed. This is why I object to the specific claim you have been making. > > “No one can say anything about a Supreme being.” That is entirely correct. Yet this is what you were doing, and I stuck my nose in to rebut it. > > My personal objection to an “infinite” God is that the proposition can’t be tested. There will always be some (possible) God that has finite, yet very great, power, such that it exceeds our ability to differentiate from infinite. > > If the total amount of energy in the cosmos is (just picking a big number here) 10^700 joules, and a God comes along who can wield 10^900 joules of energy – or even 10^9000000 joules! – that would be as good as “infinite” to us, while still being vastly short of truly infinite. Be tested? Isn’t that what’s happening to you? You’re being tested. Your strengths, to survive, to be the fittest. Sorry, I’m a bit of a Freudian. The operating system holds many dips and turns, seek internal answers? Everything you say - is actually about you. God is powerful because the concept can’t be tested - it’s not for your perusal. It’s out of your reach. How smart did primates actually become thus far? I like watching those shows with ape studies on PBS. It reminds me of my limitations from the view of a higher intelligence. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![arielburns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/6de8d8/32.png) [@arielburns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/arielburns)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2014, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/faith-religion-and-the-afterlife-a-form-of-denial/677713/569 "2014-01-28T22:36:48Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Perchance, did you happen to notice the name of the forum you are currently posting in? I am now blessed with czarcasm, yay. Hey, I did hear that sarcasm was bad for your heart. It’s about neuropeptides that affect inflammatory molecules. BE CAREFUL. Here, hug my teddy bear. I am now joining the discussion. I just wanted to aptly say I felt that this discussion was pointless and it was my way of excusing myself for womping people over the head with their own logic. It’s a matter of being right, and knowing I’m always right, and good, and not like you. Haha, you ever read about the topic of splitting? It’s a psychology term that defines how humans first see things in very concrete values of black and white. They feed their esteems and hold down negative self concepts by saying one thing is good and right, and another is bad and wrong. Sometimes we argue topics to manage our internal systems. Seems like religious arguments would be a perfect place for this kind of process. That would give it meaning then, eh? 🙂 I’m thinking out loud. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2014, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/faith-religion-and-the-afterlife-a-form-of-denial/677713/570 "2014-01-28T22:38:35Z")
ArrrrrrrGGGHHHH!!! If my responses take to long I seem to lose them. I try to copy them so I can paste , but when I click copy I get booted back and can’t recover them. :mad: ---
**Author:** ![x-ray\_vision](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/x-ray_vision/32/351_2.png) [@x-ray\_vision](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/x-ray_vision)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2014, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/faith-religion-and-the-afterlife-a-form-of-denial/677713/571 "2014-01-28T22:40:16Z")
> [@arielburns](#): > > I think it naturally irks people to hear others proselytize no matter which direction it’s in. > [@arielburns](#): > > Be tested? Isn’t that what’s happening to you? You’re being tested. Your strengths, to survive, to be the fittest. Sorry, I’m a bit of a Freudian. The operating system holds many dips and turns, seek internal answers? Everything you say - is actually about you. God is powerful because the concept can’t be tested - it’s not for your perusal. It’s out of your reach. Hmm. ---
**Author:** ![x-ray\_vision](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/x-ray_vision/32/351_2.png) [@x-ray\_vision](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/x-ray_vision)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2014, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/faith-religion-and-the-afterlife-a-form-of-denial/677713/572 "2014-01-28T22:43:11Z")
> [@cosmosdan](#): > > ArrrrrrrGGGHHHH!!! If my responses take to long I seem to lose them. I try to copy them so I can paste , but when I click copy I get booted back and can’t recover them. :mad: Try a different browser. ---
**Author:** ![arielburns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/6de8d8/32.png) [@arielburns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/arielburns)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2014, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/faith-religion-and-the-afterlife-a-form-of-denial/677713/573 "2014-01-28T22:46:54Z")
> [@x-ray\_vision](#): > > Hmm. Yes, you are correct. I’m not saying I’m never guilty of my own understandings. LOL. That’s the great part of being me. I was probably trying to avoid getting involved and reminding myself how friggin annoying I can be when I start doing that. haha ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2014, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/faith-religion-and-the-afterlife-a-form-of-denial/677713/574 "2014-01-28T22:47:38Z")
arielburns, please restrict your postings to topics relevant to the thread at hand. Involving the personalities of other posters is not a good thing. ---
**Author:** ![arielburns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/6de8d8/32.png) [@arielburns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/arielburns)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2014, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/faith-religion-and-the-afterlife-a-form-of-denial/677713/575 "2014-01-28T22:51:56Z")
> [@cosmosdan](#): > > ArrrrrrrGGGHHHH!!! If my responses take to long I seem to lose them. I try to copy them so I can paste , but when I click copy I get booted back and can’t recover them. :mad: Oh wow you have additional requirements involving time limits. You must have had some kind of superior logic, or, it could mean you were going to introduce an argument that would have shifted everything dimensionally to a point it no longer sustains coherence. When it happens once, it’s probably nothing. If it only happens to you, it’s some kind of quantum event probably happening. ---
**Author:** ![arielburns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/6de8d8/32.png) [@arielburns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/arielburns)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2014, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/faith-religion-and-the-afterlife-a-form-of-denial/677713/576 "2014-01-28T22:56:55Z")
> [@Jonathan\_Chance](#): > > arielburns, please restrict your postings to topics relevant to the thread at hand. Involving the personalities of other posters is not a good thing. I’m already in trouble. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2014, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/faith-religion-and-the-afterlife-a-form-of-denial/677713/577 "2014-01-28T22:59:18Z")
Which is why I’m telling you, without giving a warning, to refocus your posts. Ignoring this can results in your ability to post being limited or revoked. No one wants that. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2014, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/faith-religion-and-the-afterlife-a-form-of-denial/677713/578 "2014-01-28T23:00:19Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > This has a shallow “truth” to it(I’d say about an eighth of an inch in depth, but I’m generous), I appreciate your generous nature 😉 > [@](#): > > but if their beliefs instruct them that their “god” is will hold them accountable if they do not ignore earthly rights and responsibilities to do his/her/it’s bidding, then it’s a moot point. > [@](#): > > what if God instructs them to serve others in compassion and humility? > You talk of taking responsibility and respecting the rights of others, but the introduction of gods adds another layer of responsibilities and rights above those of us mere humans-you no longer have human rights developed over centuries through hard fought negotiation and reasoning, but instead have God-given rights that can change at the whim of a deity that cannot be negotiated with. You no long have responsibility to your fellow human-your god will tell you what your responsibilities are. I doubt we can say whether a believer, agnostic or atheist is more likley to be kind to others , helpful, or selfish and self serving. If an atheist harms others is it more accpetable because at least that person isn’t a believer? Of course not. That’s why I say we respond to the actions , the choices and the repercussions of the person’s belief system. Whether they believe in God or not doesn’t matter. > [@](#): > > If religionists manage to get along with each other, it isn’t because of anything innate in their individual religions, but because of pressure from governments and society itself. In your opinion. some religions teach exactly that, or at least that you don’t force your beliefs on otrhers, you merely witness in word and deed. > [@](#): > > Few religions teach “People First-God Second” , right, but some teach you can only put god first by serving others. Can we say if believers or non believers are more likely to be power hungry or self serving at the expense and to the detriment of others? > [@](#): > > so let’s not pretend that this “Just let everybody believe what they want to believe and everything will be fine and dandy” idea is anything but an artificial construct suitable for nothing but bumper stickers. It’s much more complex than that. More, let people believe as they will and choose their own path as long as they do no harm to others. Regardless of what belief system you follow you must take personal responsibility for your choices and how those choices affect others. It assumes that our diverse belief systems will bring about conflict, and that that conflict is a nessecary part of human growth. It’s how we handle that conflict that matters. ---
**Author:** ![arielburns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/6de8d8/32.png) [@arielburns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/arielburns)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2014, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/faith-religion-and-the-afterlife-a-form-of-denial/677713/579 "2014-01-28T23:06:20Z")
> [@Jonathan\_Chance](#): > > Which is why I’m telling you, without giving a warning, to refocus your posts. Ignoring this can results in your ability to post being limited or revoked. No one wants that. Thanks for the second chance. I hear you. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2014, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/faith-religion-and-the-afterlife-a-form-of-denial/677713/580 "2014-01-28T23:12:12Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > If I profess the belief that a certain political leader is worth following, you have the ability to investigate his background, his accomplishments, his scandals, his habits, and just about anything about his personal life and maybe even his private beliefs and goals as told to his family and friends. If you think he has done something wrong he can be brought before authorities and questioned(and punished, if need be.) He is a human being with human emotions and human needs, and this allows you insight into what he might be about. He is subject to the human condition and anyone following him will bear the same human stain, if to a lesser degree. > Now, compare that to gods and their followers. Do people vote based on very superficial reasons? Of course. Both believers and non believers. I tell people all the time that the label “I’m a Christian” means nothing to me because that statement tells me NOTHING of that persons character. They might be kind humble, and considerete of others, or judgemental pias jerks. Same goes for the label of atheist It only reflects one small aspect of a person’s makeup and IMO not a significant one. So, if a politician says “I pray every day to try and be a goood public servant to my constituants” that also doesn’t tell me anything about his leadership capabilities or his position on the issues. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/faith-religion-and-the-afterlife-a-form-of-denial/677713.md?page=28) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/faith-religion-and-the-afterlife-a-form-of-denial/677713.md?page=30)