# Faith, religion, and the afterlife: A form of denial **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 2, 2014, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/faith-religion-and-the-afterlife-a-form-of-denial/677713 "2014-01-02T16:57:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 38
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2014, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/faith-religion-and-the-afterlife-a-form-of-denial/677713/741 "2014-02-15T02:25:40Z")
> [@x-ray\_vision](#): > > . . . \*“I don’t know if there is a god.” > > “ **I believe** there is a god, and his name of Carlos, and he created the Moon and the Stars.”\* > > The above person would be an agnostic theist. . . . It is my opinion that the two statements are not compatible. I agree that there is a fine shade of meaning between “know” and “believe,” but, at the same time, I don’t think that very many theists allow themselves to depend upon that extremely fine shade of meaning. In ordinary language, “know” and “believe” are pretty much (yeah, I’ll use the word “functionally”) the same. Once the theist starts down the road to specificity – God’s name is Carlos, etc. – he has proceeded to unite “knowledge” and “belief.” Anyway…that’s my belief. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2014, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/faith-religion-and-the-afterlife-a-form-of-denial/677713/742 "2014-02-15T03:04:16Z")
> [@cosmosdan](#): > > RUN, TRINOPUS, RUN LIKE THE WIND!! > Oh NO,… I’m to late. …Alas, poor Trinopus. cosmosdan, I’m going to go easy on you here and just mod note you. Stop with even looking like your pretending to insult other posters in this - or any other - thread. It has no place in great debates and further incidents will go poorly for you. ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2014, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/faith-religion-and-the-afterlife-a-form-of-denial/677713/743 "2014-02-15T12:49:50Z")
I guess people who call themselves Christian could be considered Christian, just they don’t follow all of Jesus teachings. Too many pick and choose what they want to follow. The first Christians were known for their love. Today’s Christians make it hard to believe they are Christian, when one looks at what the gospel writers say a Christian should do. Too many are more like the Pharisees that Jesus seemed to despise. They make a big deal of what they call their Christianity like the Pharisees did, but don’t follow the spirit of Jesus teachings that the Gospels seem to expect a Christian to do! ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2014, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/faith-religion-and-the-afterlife-a-form-of-denial/677713/744 "2014-02-15T20:58:29Z")
> [@monavis](#): > > I guess people who call themselves Christian could be considered Christian, just they don’t follow all of Jesus teachings. Too many pick and choose what they want to follow. . . . Agreed; people’s choice of self-identification should (out of politeness, if nothing else) be interpreted as widely as possible. Some sects and denominations are really big “bulges in the side of the tent,” but, by and large, they are still “within the tent.” ---
**Author:** ![Esco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9de053/32.png) [@Esco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esco)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2014, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/faith-religion-and-the-afterlife-a-form-of-denial/677713/745 "2014-02-15T21:00:44Z")
You CANT die. Period!! Look up “astral projection” or NDE’s if you wanna learn more. I had an OBE (not same as NDE) and it completely changed my life for the better 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2014, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/faith-religion-and-the-afterlife-a-form-of-denial/677713/746 "2014-02-15T21:07:23Z")
> [@Esco](#): > > You CANT die. Period!! > > Look up “astral projection” or NDE’s if you wanna learn more. > > I had an OBE (not same as NDE) and it completely changed my life for the better 🙂 Opinion, unsupported by evidence. ---
**Author:** ![Esco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9de053/32.png) [@Esco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esco)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2014, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/faith-religion-and-the-afterlife-a-form-of-denial/677713/747 "2014-02-15T21:11:11Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Opinion, unsupported by evidence How would I go about proving it though?? I can tell you the experience was a real as me typing this post right now ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2014, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/faith-religion-and-the-afterlife-a-form-of-denial/677713/748 "2014-02-15T21:13:14Z")
> [@Esco](#): > > How would I go about proving it though?? > > I can tell you the experience was a real as me typing this post right now Of course! You experience was entirely, 100% real…_to you_. I will in no way doubt your experience. But it certainly does \*not \*support your claim that “we cannot die.” ---
**Author:** ![Esco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9de053/32.png) [@Esco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esco)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2014, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/faith-religion-and-the-afterlife-a-form-of-denial/677713/749 "2014-02-15T21:23:03Z")
> [@andros](#): > > Of course! You experience was entirely, 100% real…_to you_. I will in no way doubt your experience. > > But it certainly does \*not \*support your claim that “we cannot die.” There are scientific facts to back up what I’m saying though. Just to name 2: **1.** Energy (which is what your body is) cannot be destroyed. Even Einstein said so. **2.** Matter cannot be created nor destroyed. It can only change forms. When you die, thats exactly what happens, you change form to whats called an “astral body”. I know it all sounds totally ridiculous, and if it hadnt happened to me I’d probably laugh my head off if anyone suggested life after death ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2014, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/faith-religion-and-the-afterlife-a-form-of-denial/677713/750 "2014-02-15T21:25:28Z")
> [@Esco](#): > > There are scientific facts to back up what I’m saying though. Just to name 2: > > **1.** Energy (which is what your body is) cannot be destroyed. Even Einstein said so. > > **2.** Matter cannot be created nor destroyed. It can only change forms. When you die, thats exactly what happens, you change form to whats called an “astral body”. > > I know it all sounds totally ridiculous, and if it hadnt happened to me I’d probably laugh my head off if anyone suggested life after death Perhaps a separate thread on the matter would be in order? ---
**Author:** ![Esco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9de053/32.png) [@Esco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esco)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2014, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/faith-religion-and-the-afterlife-a-form-of-denial/677713/751 "2014-02-15T21:31:22Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Perhaps a separate thread on the matter would be in order? So long as it doesnt get trolled to death I dont mind. People who wanna learn more about it need to be very open-minded. Skepticism is fine, so long as it doesnt lead to cynicism ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2014, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/faith-religion-and-the-afterlife-a-form-of-denial/677713/752 "2014-02-15T21:34:49Z")
> [@Esco](#): > > So long as it doesnt get trolled to death I dont mind. > > People who wanna learn more about it need to be very open-minded. Skepticism is fine, so long as it doesnt lead to cynicism That goes for both sides, you know. As long as _you_ are open to evidence and the scientific process used to examine such evidence, such a thread could be very informative…to _both_ sides. ---
**Author:** ![Esco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9de053/32.png) [@Esco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esco)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2014, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/faith-religion-and-the-afterlife-a-form-of-denial/677713/753 "2014-02-15T21:57:32Z")
Okay, when I have more time tomorrow I’ll start a detailed thread on “astral projection”, NDE’s and everything else thats related ---
**Author:** ![x-ray\_vision](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/x-ray_vision/32/351_2.png) [@x-ray\_vision](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/x-ray_vision)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2014, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/faith-religion-and-the-afterlife-a-form-of-denial/677713/754 "2014-02-15T21:59:04Z")
> [@Esco](#): > > **1.** Energy (which is what your body is) cannot be destroyed. Even Einstein said so. Before starting that thread tomorrow, you may want to read the following: > **[Matter and Energy: A False Dichotomy](https://profmattstrassler.com/articles-and-posts/particle-physics-basics/mass-energy-matter-etc/matter-and-energy-a-false-dichotomy/)** > > Matt Strassler \[April 12, 2012\] It is common that, when reading about the universe or about particle physics, one will come across a phrase that somehow refers to “matter and energy”, a… [http://www.askamathematician.com/2012/11/q-if-energy-is-neither-created-nor-destroyed-what-happens-to-the-energy-within-our-bodies-and-brains-when-we-die/](http://www.askamathematician.com/2012/11/q-if-energy-is-neither-created-nor-destroyed-what-happens-to-the-energy-within-our-bodies-and-brains-when-we-die/) ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2014, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/faith-religion-and-the-afterlife-a-form-of-denial/677713/755 "2014-02-15T22:10:24Z")
> [@Esco](#): > > There are scientific facts to back up what I’m saying though. Just to name 2: > > **1.** Energy (which is what your body is) cannot be destroyed. Even Einstein said so. > > **2.** Matter cannot be created nor destroyed. It can only change forms. In this case, it “changes form” from alive to dead. ---
**Author:** ![Esco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9de053/32.png) [@Esco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esco)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2014, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/faith-religion-and-the-afterlife-a-form-of-denial/677713/756 "2014-02-15T22:13:38Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > In this case, it “changes form” from alive to dead Yes, the body does, but the energy doesnt ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2014, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/faith-religion-and-the-afterlife-a-form-of-denial/677713/757 "2014-02-15T22:42:55Z")
> [@Esco](#): > > Yes, the body does, but the energy doesnt :dubious: To the extent it was ever “alive”, it does. It just dissipates away like light from a light bulb or heat from a fire. Unlike fantasy stories, there’s no such thing as “life force” or “life energy”, if that’s what you at getting at. ---
**Author:** ![Esco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9de053/32.png) [@Esco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esco)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2014, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/faith-religion-and-the-afterlife-a-form-of-denial/677713/758 "2014-02-15T23:03:27Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Unlike fantasy stories, there’s no such thing as “life force” or “life energy”, if that’s what you at getting at Thats fine Trihs, if you wanna believe that. I’m not here to force my opinion on anyone, all I can do is relate my story on what happened to me when I had my OBE 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2014, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/faith-religion-and-the-afterlife-a-form-of-denial/677713/759 "2014-02-15T23:11:48Z")
> [@Esco](#): > > Thats fine Trihs, if you wanna believe that. It’s not a matter of what anyone “wants”, it’s the simple fact. ---
**Author:** ![Esco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9de053/32.png) [@Esco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esco)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2014, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/faith-religion-and-the-afterlife-a-form-of-denial/677713/760 "2014-02-15T23:41:54Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > It’s not a matter of what anyone “wants”, it’s the simple fact You will find out in due time that you’re completely wrong [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/faith-religion-and-the-afterlife-a-form-of-denial/677713.md?page=37) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/faith-religion-and-the-afterlife-a-form-of-denial/677713.md?page=39)